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منتدى المغرب و المغاربة حول العالم

The Kingdom in the Closet

Sodomy is punishable by death in Saudi Arabia, but gay life flourishes there. Why it is “easier to be gay than straight” in a society where everyone, homosexual and otherwise, lives in the closet

by Nadya Labi

Yasser, a 26-year-old artist, was taking me on an impromptu tour of his hometown of Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on a sweltering September afternoon. The air conditioner of his dusty Honda battled the heat, prayer beads dangled from the rearview mirror, and the smell of the cigarette he’d just smoked wafted toward me as he stopped to show me a barbershop that his friends frequent. Officially, men in Saudi Arabia aren’t allowed to wear their hair long or to display jewelry—such vanities are usually deemed to violate an Islamic instruction that the sexes must not be too similar in appearance. But Yasser wears a silver necklace, a silver bracelet, and a sparkly red stud in his left ear, and his hair is shaggy. Yasser is homosexual, or so we would describe him in the West, and the barbershop we visited caters to gay men. Business is brisk.

Leaving the barbershop, we drove onto Tahlia Street, a broad avenue framed by palm trees, then went past a succession of sleek malls and slowed in front of a glass-and-steel shopping center. Men congregated outside and in nearby cafés. Whereas most such establishments have a family section, two of this area’s cafés allow only men; not surprisingly, they are popular among men who prefer one another’s company. Yasser gestured to a parking lot across from the shopping center, explaining that after midnight it would be “full of men picking up men.” These days, he said, “you see gay people everywhere.”

Yasser turned onto a side street, then braked suddenly. “Oh shit, it’s a checkpoint,” he said, inclining his head toward some traffic cops in brown uniforms. “Do you have your ID?” he asked me. He wasn’t worried about the gay-themed nature of his tour—he didn’t want to be caught alone with a woman. I rummaged through my purse, realizing that I’d left my passport in the hotel for safekeeping. Yasser looked behind him to see if he could reverse the car, but had no choice except to proceed. To his relief, the cops nodded us through. “God, they freaked me out,” Yasser said. As he resumed his narration, I recalled something he had told me earlier. “It’s a lot easier to be gay than straight here,” he had said. “If you go out with a girl, people will start to ask her questions. But if I have a date upstairs and my family is downstairs, they won’t even come up.”

Notorious for its adherence to Wahhabism, a puritanical strain of Islam, and as the birthplace of most of the 9/11 hijackers, Saudi Arabia is the only Arab country that claims sharia, or Islamic law, as its sole legal code. The list of prohibitions is long: It’s haram—forbidden—to smoke, drink, go to discos, or mix with an unrelated person of the opposite gender. The rules are enforced by the mutawwa’in, religious authorities employed by the government’s Committee for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice.

The kingdom is dominated by mosques and malls, which the mutawwa’in patrol in leather sandals and shortened versions of the thawb, the traditional ankle-length white robe that many Saudis wear. Some mutawwa’in even bear marks of their devotion on their faces; they bow to God so adamantly that pressing their foreheads against the ground leaves a visible dent. The mutawwa’in prod shoppers to say their devotions when the shops close for prayer, several times daily. If they catch a boy and a girl on a date, they might haul the couple to the police station. They make sure that single men steer clear of the malls, which are family-only zones for the most part, unless they are with a female relative. Though the power of the mutawwa’in has been curtailed recently, their presence still inspires fear.

In Saudi Arabia, sodomy is punishable by death. Though that penalty is seldom applied, just this February a man in the Mecca region was executed for having sex with a boy, among other crimes. (For this reason, the names of most people in this story have been changed.) Ask many Saudis about homosexuality, and they’ll wince with repugnance. “I disapprove,” Rania, a 32-year-old human-resources manager, told me firmly. “Women weren’t meant to be with women, and men aren’t supposed to be with men.”

This legal and public condemnation notwithstanding, the kingdom leaves considerable space for homosexual behavior. As long as gays and lesbians maintain a public front of obeisance to Wahhabist norms, they are left to do what they want in private. Vibrant communities of men who enjoy sex with other men can be found in cosmopolitan cities like Jeddah and Riyadh. They meet in schools, in cafés, in the streets, and on the Internet. “You can be cruised anywhere in Saudi Arabia, any time of the day,” said Radwan, a 42-year-old gay Saudi American who grew up in

Hi there:

Homoxesuality is rampant in every Arab country. It's nothing new. Matter of fact, Morocco is known for that. Girls go wild with middle eastern men, and so called "Moroccan men" give it up for 100dh with a spaniard.

Moroccan men sleep with one another in every jail of your beloved country. There is no "what happens in Vegas stays in Vegas"; the same men who leave jail continue in their pervert habits and never give up hitting a hairy ass of another fellow Moroccan.

Galek wahed al matal meghribi; benadem kayshouf feli hessen menou mashi li kefess{you should look up to someone better to learn from not someone worse}.

Let gays live in peace if they are not bothering you, unless you are a desperate woman angry about the lack of straight Moroccan men.otherwise li e3ta.....xxxx, lehla yefekou

I would say that homosexuality exists all over the world, Arab or non Arab. However, it is quite interesting to see the consequences of a "strict" society that enforces religion both on Muslims and non Muslims alike. Saudi Arabia is a case-study for anyone trying to understand the impact of enforced religion on social behavior.

Can we have the end of the article please?

here you can read the whole artical

[tmq2.wordpress.com]

what's happening in Morocco's a thousand times worse, here homosexuality is getting more and more serious, it's becoming "public" and some faggots don't hide it, they even run a documentary on 2M channel where (in Marrakesh) gays do it publically without winking , cities like Marrakesh's a paradise for such bastards, one of these days San Francisco would be the second capital of homosexuality, Marakesh will be the 1st then, that is ...Allah forbid !!

shelby? who gives a damn about homosexuals?
i say that anything related to sex should be hidden... we arent animals, we dont make out in public...

as long as the gays are hiding, i'm fine with that... do whatever you want in your room. but once you are in public, behave...

i have no hate toward them... as long as they respect my values...

Lemask, Please live and let live. Do not bother with what other ppl values are. When will we realize that the way to get out of this is accepting our differences?? the greatest nations on this planet understood very well that diversity is the key to success and that is why they have landed on the moon while many of our countrymen still live in caves



















WE ARE NOT BORN TO BE THE SAME. Diversity is the law of nature..and big nations on this planet understood this very well and that is why they landed on the moon while we still live in caves!!

virtual_person? what the hell is wrong with you?
i said something against the gays? i give them what i give to myself... the freedom to do whatever they want, as long as they dont show it in public...

there is general rules... and they have to respect them aswell.

if the gays want to parade and to show their sexual life, then, they arent respecting our values, and they deserve some problems...

as long as they act like normal people, they have nothing to fear.

and it's not a behavior, it's the law... as Muslims we dont have the right to keep an eye on them to know if they are sleeping with a male or a female...

dont bring anything bad on me, and i will do the same on you...

Mr LeMask, Please do not make things sound too personal. We are debating ideas and there is no reason for your defensive reaction.
Back to topic, I think values can not be standardised. Everyone is free to choose theirs and I really don't care how ppl behave on the streets as long as they respect general rules for public order.

indeed virtual_person, but showing your sexuality isnt a right in some places...
dont show it in front of us, our kids, our people... it's called respect.

if you are nudist, dont walk naked in our streets... it's fair man.

it's exactly what i'm talkin about, the general rule is "dont show your sexuality"... if you are gay, keep if for yourself, if you arent... keep it for yourself anyway...

the problem with gay people, is that there is an aggression... the aggression comes from the both sides in fact. some react with violence toward homosexuality... and the homosexuals answer with an attitude saying something like "i do exist, i do whatever i want..." it's legitimate to a certain degree...

we dont want our people to turn gay, because it's opposed to our values, so we should respect this little space between ourselves if we want to live in peace.
there is no room for provocation...

LeMask and virtual_person, you are talking exactly the same language and your ideas and beliefs are so similar, so what are you quarelling about ?

I do agree with you on the fact that people are entitled to their freedom of behaviour and sexual orientation, however, I am completely and utterly horrified at the extent of homosexuality in Saudi Arabia, the land of our ancestors and the holy place of pilgrimage. I have always looked down on these people anyway (knowing the flirtatious ways and debauchery of saudis who come to Morocco) but to discover their perversity as well makes me deeply despise them and question a whole lot of things...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2007 12:36 by Minniemouse.

Minniemouse? we arent quarelling...

and where is the problem? you think that Saudi Arabia as a land never knew homosexuality? there was homosexual tribes and this kind of stuff there a long time ago...

who cares? honestly? it's a victimless crime... i dont like homosexuality neither, but i have better things to do with my life than crying about two men loving each others...

who gives a damn? not me... not my bussiness... at least, i wont catch them touching my girl friend or something...

Virtual person, you may be living abroad, a "developed country" for sure but the way you're talking about values is nonsense, in a country like ours or in any other arabic, moslem country, homosexuality is F O R B I D D E N !!! totally forbidden, and there's no way you tell us about your host country's rules and stuff ! homos are supposed to be punished, killed that is, they're just like a virus in any country, they are against the Fitra, the instinct, that's why we call'em Shawa'th (you pronounce"th" like in "the"but as long as they cover up their bahavior, nobody cares, let's say nobody should know about their sexual behavior or else ...and the punishement is clearly mentioned in kitab al fatawa and stuff alike, so the freedom the way you see it is not acceptable, we are muslims and when it comes to sexual matters be careful, we're not animals ..not all what's free in Canada, Holland, UK, ... is suitable for our countries ! i'd be glad to throw the first stone on a gay if sentenced to death penalty ! yes sir !

they have no room in the public domain, that's for sure.

but, there is no "hunt for homosexuals"... they arent accepted, and they will never be...

they will have to live in the dark areas of society...

like with alcohol, drugs, prostitution Etc... all the things condemned by the Muslim society.
the public domain is for Muslims...

and i'm sorry for the homosexuals, but i dont think it's unfair... they have plenty of room in their houses... and bars and discos...

these places arent really for good Muslims neither... it's not a problem.

Mr Shelby, please resume your studies and return once you can make civilised comments. Or you might like to move to Tora Bora and live under the mollas...
So discusting to see that some ppl are willing to throw stones on others...in 2007!!

virtual_person? you want us to be throwing bullets and handgrenades?

believe me, stoning some individuals is much better...

there is no room for homosexuality in the public domain... at least in the Muslim countries. that's it!

Hi,

I am totaly against homosexuality, but than again each lives his one life. So as long as they dont call them selves muslims let them life their lives.
I say as long as they dont call them selves muslims, because here in the West they are loving this kinds of stories about "muslims".



___
[www.matjar.ma]

Virtual-person, you got a suitable nick dude ! you're better off virtual and a 3D, i tell you what, a homo is a black sheep in a moslem country & you gotta have that stuck in your "advanced brain", homos as i said are like a virus in a society's body,they go against the instinct, a man is a man and the natural instinct says he is supposed to mate with the opposite sex which is the female, something like the ying yang, white/ black, water/ fire, man/woman, tall/small, sun/moon ...you name it, so if one guy from 2007 says that it could work the other way back, i'd say : well, i've got two thing here, whether this 2007 man is a gay and he's defending his preferences (no offense) or he's just playing the devil's advocate, and in the two cases you gotta be very very careful, don't mess with Islamic judgments, a gay who is behaving publically (and i say publically) and declaring he's making sexual intercourses openly, is good for an awful death : stoning ! that's Allah's law and i ain't coming out with these ideas from my personal thinking, so Mr Virtual-person you gotta think twice before you spit !

shelby? aint gay man, but i love you dude!

you spit some fire... tell him how life is... welcome in the real life man!

For your info both of you: I am a father, straight and love women. I am against homo-phobia cause I do beleive in human liberty. A gay did not choose to be gay. He went through some mental stages, beyond his own power which eventually led him to have a different sexual orientation. Now, what happen in Morocco is so sad because homosexuality is very widespread at all social levels and no one can talk about it. THIS IS WHAT I CALL HYPOCRASY!! I'd rather having an open society where ppl assume themselves and face the world with it, than a society where we can do all the "sins " and pretend to be the most correct ppl on earth. Having said that, please don't get me wrong: I will be the 1st to oppose gays parading in streets or behaving inapropriatly in public..the same goes for any form of lack of good manners. Anyway, the bottom line is please do not judge ppl and start accepting differences. Look at the universe it's so diverse and rich. How can we be minimised to creatures beleiving, doing and looking the SAME!
By the way Mr Lemask solidarity with your idol Mr Shelby did not go unnoticed...

virtual_person?? there is some stuff you should know...

liberty is about choice... it's a special thing.

and you say :

Quote

. He went through some mental stages, beyond his own power which eventually led him to have a different sexual orientation.

then there is no choice in being gay... then it have nothing to do with freedom and liberty...

Quote

Anyway, the bottom line is please do not judge ppl and start accepting differences.

they arent so different... they went through some weird stuff... and we are trying to help... we call this being generous... we want to help! we dont pretend to clean their sins or something... we just stop them from hurting the normal part of society...

we have to be strong man... Shelby is special... he is normal in a time when people are not normal...
people are crazy you know? there is a wave of false tolerance and real hypocrisy...

there is a lot of hippie BS in this world, and we have to deal with it...

we look like retarded rednecks or something... but it's the price.
while people are dying in Iraq we see dumb people crying because some japenese dude is eating a dolphin...

anyway, you speak about freedom and liberty... and here is the freedom i want. i want the freedom to not see gay people. to believe that they dont exist. that they are only "crazy people"...
i want the freedom to tell my kids to not get near these freaks... i want my kids to be straight... to have kids naturally... i want my boys to love nice women. and i want to see my daughters with good and strong men.

is it too much? ... ah, yes, this IS a choice...
and i dont force anybody to accept these rules... dont like it? get away from me...
i'm not into nationalism, i dont ask you to leave the country... but just dont get near me, i dont want to share anything with you. MY life, MY choice...

Thanks Mr LeMask, really it's too sad to hear somebody who claims to be a muslim adopting foreigners' principles, a gay is a gay, it's like any mentally-ill person, those persons need some therapy and medecines, i don't think they're natural-born gays because Allah created us as we are supposed to be, there would be no mistakes with Allah's creation, most of the cases are related to family environement, incest, rape, child molestation & stuff alike... just like any mental illness( Allah yastar), they should be put in quarantine or go and get checked by a shrink or something, and for Mr virtual-person: the way you're looking at things here is totally wrong, gays are a danger for any society, like any other whacko who goes down the streets and scares the shit out of passing by people, they could hurt anybody with anything, and those homos could hurt you indirectly ...i mean one of these days when you find one of your kids with the same sex doing dirty things, that is !! i'm sure you'd get what i'm up to ...with all the respect !

Well, That's it..I am not going to waste any more time reading ignorant xenophobic ppl ..
So typical the person you are Mr Shelby!
If you happen to leave in the west then your racisme against gays is exactly the same racisme which westerners feel about arabs and muslims..YOUR HYPOCRISY AND LACK OF INTEGRITY is too apparent. It is actually worst that any imaginible sin. With all due respect!

A personal advice for you Mr virtual-person : try not to normalize what it's not normal, i'm not ready to give up my pricipals (religious ones) for the sake of a red or a blue passport, they can go and shove it up their a**es ! i repeat a gay is an insane person that needs therapy and medical surveillance and even surgical operations if needed to look like everyone else and live like a NORMAL human being a man if a man and a woman if a woman, and your opinions about equality and tolerances are all bullshit, it's their rules and their principles maybe some faggots (gays) who went up the ladder of responsibility adopted these rules and laws to suit their sexual preferences and crap, but for me as an arab and a moslem and i say it loud : GAYS ARE GOOD FOR STONING !it's Allah's laws and nobody has the right to say otherwise, Allah created us to worship HIM and created Man and Woman to mate and have children as a family and other thing outside this sacred relationship is forbidden ! and you're not gonna change my mind come what may !

shelby? you are so cruel...
you forgot that homosexual sex is natural... in jail...

oh yeah that's right, Allah forbid!

How can you talk about God and worship and use such language? There's so much anger at a group of people who are as human as the rest of us. Talking about stoning somebody is so first century thinking, the way you seem to attack this group, seems too defensive a mechanism;for a staight person such as yourself!
Normal is a relative term ! ...as an Arab and A Muslim you say it outloud...Some gays happen to be just like you Arabs and Muslims, are they less and you are more arab and more muslim than they are?! this is not about changing your mind or your views, you just seem to go on and on with a language that's inadequate in a discussion! why are you so angry Mr. Shelby?
please, don't insult me just because I happen to respect This particular group's choices. I have nothing against them or you for that matter. I do find the level of vulagarity cheaply used, though! enlighten us in a civil manner if you could! If not, I wish you the best...
Yours, truly!
Yani

you're right Mr Yani in the majority of what you said, especially the part of vulgar language i use ... and i'm sorry if i hurt somebody's feelings, i didn't mean it, though using these terms shows how angry am i when it comes to topics like these, i go mad when i hear a moslem saying things like modernity and 21 st century and stuff like that, as if Islam's history and it doesn't work as a religion of today's world, you must know both of you guys ( Yani & virtual-person) that homosexuality is a sin , an awful one in all three religions (christianity , judaism , Islam ) if Allah's rules don't work in today's world then i guess you are denying one of Islam's laws...and stoning in an Islamic country is the punishement for a gay who behaves openly and i say it again OPENLY, because we don't judge those who do it secretly as long as they hide it, in this case Allah's the only one to judge'em ...so whether we're moslems, we accept Islam as it is or we take this name (moslems) off us ! have a good day/night !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/13/2007 06:51 by shelby.

Yani? in fact, Muslims dont care about skin color or ethnic group...

if you are Arab, we are happy for you... but it shouldnt help you... if you respect the homosexuals, it's your right...
but we dont have to respect them aswell... we have the right to not like them. to think that they are criminals...

you know, i hate idol worshippers... they arent evil... but they can be.
should i wait until i get rapped by some homosexuals to complain about them? god... NOT!

i hate these guys, i dont want them next to me or my kids... and i would be happy to have the legal rights to enforce this right...

and i'm not neutral... i'm a Muslim, i'm somokind of peaceful warrior following an ideal. and in this ideal, there is no gay people... men mate with some women ONLY!
not dogs, not their mothers, not their sisters, not their cows... not their brothers or fathers... NOT! just "some" (if i said all women it would be incest) women...

okay?