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Morocco # English board

منتدى المغرب و المغاربة حول العالم

Dear Moroccans

I know I will get some criticism for this, but I wanted to bring up this issue for discussion. As per the latest statistics, the U.S. brings about 5 thousands Moroccans every year as part of the Diversity Visa Program, which brings over 50,000 thousand nationals every year to the U.S., gives them a green card and sets them loose in this country. I am not principally against giving these people such an opportunity, but I know many Moroccans that have been in this country for a while without papers. Don't they deserve a chance? Isn't it better to have a program like that for people that are inside the U.S first?

Not to label people, but a lot of those "lottery winners" are often not ready to be in the U.S. in the first place. Many of them don't even speak English and have a hard time finding meaningful jobs.

What do you think?

i've never been to anyplace else but Morocco and i'd be happy if i get a green card , i tried so many times with the lottery stuff but i got zilch, this year i didn't subscribe, maybe i was sick of or let's say it became a silly thing , "A7lam al yaqadha" (daydreams), but when it comes to your question buddy, i think it's better off like it is now, we Moroccans gotta empty this country and try to get teh hell outta here, for those who're in the US and got no papers, they're lucky enough, they had their chance (they're already there) so they oughtta bust their asses off to get established,find a suitable job and make as much greenbacks as they can and lead a peaceful life, then and only then Morocco would look like a nice childhood-like place you feel happy everytime you visit it, and to sum up green card lottery's FAIR ENOUGH !!

shelby u really made me laugh while reading your message, i think u r right, those in the us ar lucky enough to be there already and giving the chance to moroccans in morocco is better, plus the lottery is very selective nowadays, people need to have as a minimum degree a high school diploma in order to be accepted

seriously Mr Cranberry, we're struggling in here to get a tiny piece of loaf, those who got their green card are supposed to have a high school degree minimum, we're sick of sending those goddamn ignorants to "represent" our country abroad, we in Morocco unlike other arab countries like Lebannon, Syria or Palestine are known for our illeterate immigrants, we "send'em stupid donkeys" (not all of course but for so many years) who're ready to sweat their asses and work like real donkeys, and while Lebanese, palestinians, egyptians..reach suitable and honorable levels ( doctors, surgeons, senators and even presidents) we stick with the shovels and brooms, sure i'm not generalizing, with all the respect to those Moroccans who did great and led an honorable carreer, don't you think it's high time for us to change that and focus on selective immigration ? we no more want to lick others' boots, it's time for us Moroccans to live high-headed for God's sake !

hello,
actually it's miss cranberry,
well i totally agree with you, u said it all, but believe me it's changing now there are many moroccan doctors and lawyers practicing in the us and that wasn't the case years ago, and as far as the immigration is concerned i think they are selective, they require education now, and high school diplomas as a minimum except in the case of marriages where they can't deprive a person to go with her/his partner if not having good education.

i think they should be even more selective and not only in the US. sometimes i see people that make me wonder how in the world did they manage to get a visa!? it s just crazy!
some of them can't even put 2 words together and here they are in a foreign country they know nothing about, walking down the street wearing a djellaba!

Quote
bella02
i think they should be even more selective and not only in the US. sometimes i see people that make me wonder how in the world did they manage to get a visa!? it s just crazy!
some of them can't even put 2 words together and here they are in a foreign country they know nothing about, walking down the street wearing a djellaba!

Salam,

Well I dont see whats wrong with wearing Jelaba in the streets! moving to US doesn't mean that we have to change our cultures and customs just to please the others!.

you're damn right Miss Ex-missDoll, one should keep his own customs, we shouldn't be like the ones who forget their habits and cultures just because we're living in other countries as long as we're not offending the others, it's true we're different than westerners in so many issues : religion, language, etc ... but we have the same mental and physical abilities to shine and succeed like anybody else !

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Ex-missdoll

Salam,

Well I dont see whats wrong with wearing Jelaba in the streets! moving to US doesn't mean that we have to change our cultures and customs just to please the others!.

Respect Miss!

@shelby: I agree with you, but you have to take a look in the European countries. When Moroccan guys like you are trying to achieve something in their life by living in an other country, these people here don't even try it. They already made moroccans look bad and it's still going on. Like you said before: Must of this people are unedicated, coming from Elrif (I have nothing against ryafa, but it's just the truth). Some of them are respectable and doing well, but most of them are just people doing some really dumb things over here.

To go back to the discussion I agree with Shelby. There should be "selective immegration" on a high level. It's time for Moroccans to clean up their names.

Peace.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/08/2007 10:46 by hitman.

dont blame the rayafa for the bad name that moroccans have.

If you read carefully I don't generalize. I quote myself: Some of them are respectable and doing well...

You can't deny the fact that most of them come to Europe with no education at all. That makes it for them very hard to follow any education. Instead they are looking for easy money. Not just ryafa are doing this, but also some of the people from the "dakhil". I lived in a hood where there was only ryafa and some turkish people. 95% of these ryafa never went to school. None of them is graduated at school. The hood is famous know in the ciry where I live because of the crminality. It's just like the backhoods in America.

I don't blame them for the bad name, but if you see the facts they have a lot to do with it.

Peace.

i never said anything 'bout customs and traditions, however there is such thing as adapting to the country you now live in!!!!!
and those people might wanna check what that means!

Hitman's right Ryafa well lets' say most of them suck ! i don't know why but that's what you'd realize when you frequent'em, i'm sorry to say that but i had myown experiences, most of them are arrogants and got nothing in mind, sure it has something to do with the stuff they harvest in Kutama if you know what i mean, money but s**t in their heads ! with all the respect to those who are nice ! no offense !

Quote
shelby
Hitman's right Ryafa well lets' say most of them suck ! i don't know why but that's what you'd realize when you frequent'em, i'm sorry to say that but i had myown experiences, most of them are arrogants and got nothing in mind, sure it has something to do with the stuff they harvest in Kutama if you know what i mean, money but s**t in their heads ! with all the respect to those who are nice ! no offense !

If we become to people who are sucks! than we can talk about the people from daghilia.They sell them childeren to europeans an middle east people,to have sex with them. See what happen in marakesch an casablanca.

come to the north an see how much beggars from the daghilia asking for a few dirhams an dont talk about the protitutios..dubai is full of girls from casa who are selling them body for a few dollars.

Drugs export makes more than 14bn dollars a year for morocco. its morocco export product number one. without that morocco will become a second somalia.

@sbs: Why don't you visite a low cabaret/hotel in casablanca or rabat to see what the rifiyas are doing there? Why don't you come to Europe to see the rifiyate walking out home with "hijab" and when she arrives at school there is no Hijab and a lot of makeup on her face? Why don't you come see how rifiyate are not even selling their bodies, but doing it with all kind of people. From Somali to a Chinese. These are facts. If you want to blame the dakhil go ahead, but at least they are doing things without hiding them.

Besides: we didn't talk about protistution. We talked about the fact that most of them are ignorant, unedicated and think they own the world when they've got nothing. Sorry but this is the naked truth. We are all Moroccans. I don't care about you if you're rifi, soesi or doekkali. There is only the fact that Ryafa are lower educated than the average "dakhili".

Quote

Drugs export makes more than 14bn dollars a year for morocco. its morocco export product number one. without that morocco will become a second somalia.

Really something to be proud of...

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hitman
@sbs: Why don't you visite a low cabaret/hotel in casablanca or rabat to see what the rifiyas are doing there? Why don't you come to Europe to see the rifiyate walking out home with "hijab" and when she arrives at school there is no Hijab and a lot of makeup on her face? Why don't you come see how rifiyate are not even selling their bodies, but doing it with all kind of people. From Somali to a Chinese. These are facts. If you want to blame the dakhil go ahead, but at least they are doing things without hiding them.

Besides: we didn't talk about protistution. We talked about the fact that most of them are ignorant, unedicated and think they own the world when they've got nothing. Sorry but this is the naked truth. We are all Moroccans. I don't care about you if you're rifi, soesi or doekkali. There is only the fact that Ryafa are lower educated than the average "dakhili".

Quote

Drugs export makes more than 14bn dollars a year for morocco. its morocco export product number one. without that morocco will become a second somalia.

Really something to be proud of...

You must tell no lie's concerning riffians women who have rejected you because you are a liar and a traitor.

i think there's no need to go abroad and see what riffis do when they go outside Morocco, if you live in al Hoceima for instance, you'd realize how hard their heads are, they'd beat the shit out of you if you take a look at one of their girls and things would go worse if you say or do something to them (their girls), things are "acceptable" as far but it's not because they are more religious or more conservatives, NO sir, they do it because they think nobody should make any kind of relationship with any of their girls but Riffis and only Riffis, if you're a stranger, you're an alien, you're an outsider, you're dead if you move a finger, believe me in communities like these INCEST crimes are big among 'em, they are so tight that they commit what's worse and still they insist on hiding what's really going on because they're afraid of scandals and stuff alike ... "Khirna ma yaddih ghirna" as they say ...in berber of course !
N.B : i'm not generalizing and i respect all those who respect themselves whoever they are !

Perhaps its me, but I would like to know why you would like to send your best people abroad?
Dont you think you need them for your one country? I would say send the ones that do not have a chance at all in Morocco, send those ones abroad so they would have a chance maybe there. But please keep the best for your self.
Personaly I think the moroccans self are to blame for the situation (economic situation) that they are in. Dont get me wrong there is nothing more that I would want for my country than to be prosperous. But its time for us moroccans to stand up on our own feets and start make our own country than just looking at Europe or the US and keep dreaming. Stop blaming the goverment. Its the people that make a country not the goverment.

So what we reallllllly should not do is send our best people abroad.

-------
[www.matjar.ma]

Quote

You must tell no lie's concerning riffians women who have rejected you because you are a liar and a traitor.

The only thing why you are saying this is because all what I said is true. You realize that's the truth and you don't have any other arguments to defend yourself. Really cheap method of your side to call me a liar.
Besides...Riffi women are not my type of women. Sorry to say that. There are beautiful riffiyate, but the culture differences are just too big. My girlfriend is from the "dakhil". Her aunts are married to ryafa. And every one of them are suffering. Their man don't treat them like human beings. I saw a lot of girls from "dakhil" who took ryafa men and it's everytime the same story. The girl goes to work, pays the bills and everything...And the riffi? He hang out with his friends, sleep till 15:00 and watch TV...These are facts. If you don't believe me just come visite any European country and see for yourself.

@matjar.ma: It's a two edged sword. You're right about keeping the best people abroad, but sending people with no chance at all will only affect the name of Moroccans. That's already taking place, we don't need it to become worse.
I agree with you that we have to stop the government and start doing things our self.

Peace.

Here is what i think,
Everything should follow the rules.
These people that you are stating as being in the united states without papers are called "illegal immigrants ",a person that follows an illegal path in my opinion does not have the right to get the same privileges as a person that followed the rules that the united states is appliying which is the lottery.

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hitman

Quote
Ex-missdoll

Salam,

Well I dont see whats wrong with wearing Jelaba in the streets! moving to US doesn't mean that we have to change our cultures and customs just to please the others!.

Respect Miss!

@shelby: I agree with you, but you have to take a look in the European countries. When Moroccan guys like you are trying to achieve something in their life by living in an other country, these people here don't even try it. They already made moroccans look bad and it's still going on. Like you said before: Must of this people are unedicated, coming from Elrif (I have nothing against ryafa, but it's just the truth). Some of them are respectable and doing well, but most of them are just people doing some really dumb things over here.

To go back to the discussion I agree with Shelby. There should be "selective immegration" on a high level. It's time for Moroccans to clean up their names.

Peace.

What a bullshit. You do not live in Europa I do. The Moroccans are doing good in Europe. The second generation Moroccan in Europa has high education.

There are a lot of succesfull Moroccans in Holland.

Not only Moroccans have some problems in Europa but all foreigners. In Holland we have more problems with poeple from Antillen etc..

In Germany they have problems with the Turkish poeple..

In Engeland they have problems with the people from Pakistan...

In Scandinivia they have problems with foreigners etc...

In French the have big problems with Algerians...


Europe is more racist then the US of Canada that is the big problem. Foreigners have always the bad jobs. And the foreigners with high education do not get goog jobs. In the US etc is that different everybody has the same change...

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hitman

Quote

You must tell no lie's concerning riffians women who have rejected you because you are a liar and a traitor.

The only thing why you are saying this is because all what I said is true. You realize that's the truth and you don't have any other arguments to defend yourself. Really cheap method of your side to call me a liar.
Besides...Riffi women are not my type of women. Sorry to say that. There are beautiful riffiyate, but the culture differences are just too big. My girlfriend is from the "dakhil". Her aunts are married to ryafa. And every one of them are suffering. Their man don't treat them like human beings. I saw a lot of girls from "dakhil" who took ryafa men and it's everytime the same story. The girl goes to work, pays the bills and everything...And the riffi? He hang out with his friends, sleep till 15:00 and watch TV...These are facts. If you don't believe me just come visite any European country and see for yourself.

@matjar.ma: It's a two edged sword. You're right about keeping the best people abroad, but sending people with no chance at all will only affect the name of Moroccans. That's already taking place, we don't need it to become worse.
I agree with you that we have to stop the government and start doing things our self.

Peace.

That is in Dakhilia much worser. The woman in Casa, Rabat, Marrakech etc have big problems with their men. A lot of men hit their woman or divorce them and put them on the street with their childeren..

That is why the king came with the new womanlaw...

In Casablanca etc thousands of divorced woman lives on the street with their childeren and nobody cares about them.

Quote
hitman

Quote

You must tell no lie's concerning riffians women who have rejected you because you are a liar and a traitor.

The only thing why you are saying this is because all what I said is true. You realize that's the truth and you don't have any other arguments to defend yourself. Really cheap method of your side to call me a liar.
Besides...Riffi women are not my type of women. Sorry to say that. There are beautiful riffiyate, but the culture differences are just too big. My girlfriend is from the "dakhil". Her aunts are married to ryafa. And every one of them are suffering. Their man don't treat them like human beings. I saw a lot of girls from "dakhil" who took ryafa men and it's everytime the same story. The girl goes to work, pays the bills and everything...And the riffi? He hang out with his friends, sleep till 15:00 and watch TV...These are facts. If you don't believe me just come visite any European country and see for yourself.

@matjar.ma: It's a two edged sword. You're right about keeping the best people abroad, but sending people with no chance at all will only affect the name of Moroccans. That's already taking place, we don't need it to become worse.
I agree with you that we have to stop the government and start doing things our self.

Peace.

A VIDEO about Dakilia and how bad the woman have it there..
A lot of woman are beaten by there men...


[player.omroep.nl]

Quote

What a bullshit. You do not live in Europa I do. The Moroccans are doing good in Europe. The second generation Moroccan in Europa has high education.

There are a lot of succesfull Moroccans in Holland.

Not only Moroccans have some problems in Europa but all foreigners. In Holland we have more problems with poeple from Antillen etc..

In Germany they have problems with the Turkish poeple..

In Engeland they have problems with the people from Pakistan...
In Scandinivia they have problems with foreigners etc...

In French the have big problems with Algerians...


Europe is more racist then the US of Canada that is the big problem. Foreigners have always the bad jobs. And the foreigners with high education do not get goog jobs. In the US etc is that different everybody has the same change...

Sorry to say it: But I live in Europe. In Holland to be more exactly. If you're so excited about people with high education just take a look at Kanaleneiland in Utrecht for example. Or Overvecht/Utrecht. And I'm sure there are many of this places in Holland with unedicated Moroccan people. Not all of them are high educated. There are still people with no education at all. We must not forget that. And Holland has more problems with Moroccans than with Antillians. Just read the news papers and you'll see for yourself.

Peace.

Quote

That is in Dakhilia much worser. The woman in Casa, Rabat, Marrakech etc have big problems with their men. A lot of men hit their woman or divorce them and put them on the street with their childeren..
That is why the king came with the new womanlaw...
In Casablanca etc thousands of divorced woman lives on the street with their childeren and nobody cares about them.

In my own Family (all from the region of casablanca) there is no man who hits his woman. Also the families of my friends etc it's the same story. Maybe there are some women who get hit, but not as much as ryafa. And don't forget the culture aspects. Ryafa women are worth nothing if they leave their husbands. Sorry to say it but it's the truth.

Peace.

Dutch and Danes are the baddest, they're racists and they don't like aliens, in Holland it's even getting worse when it comes to Moroccans, a simple mistake could cost you one arm and one leg as they say in english, but certainly Ryafas who represent the majority of Moroccans living in Holland are responsible, they're are known for drug-dealing, frauds, mischief and stuff like that, plus they (with their "pride" commit stupid and insane bloopers that's why Dutch people are fed up with their behaviors and tehy're right, they've got a socially clean system and they're not ready to rotten it because of some stupid moros who came to eat bread and turn out to be a bunch of trouble-makers, we're moslems and we are supposed to be the idols of good behavior, you in holland are the mbassadors of Morocco so keep your asses clean, and try to be good citizens, only then you'd be respected and rewarded !

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shelby
Dutch and Danes are the baddest, they're racists and they don't like aliens, in Holland it's even getting worse when it comes to Moroccans, a simple mistake could cost you one arm and one leg as they say in english, but certainly Ryafas who represent the majority of Moroccans living in Holland are responsible, they're are known for drug-dealing, frauds, mischief and stuff like that, plus they

(with their "pride" commit stupid and insane bloopers that's why Dutch people are fed up with their behaviors and tehy're right, they've got a socially clean system and they're not ready to rotten it because of some stupid moros who came to eat bread and turn out to be a bunch of trouble-makers, we're moslems and we are supposed to be the idols of good behavior, you in holland are the mbassadors of Morocco so keep your asses clean, and try to be good citizens, only then you'd be respected and rewarded !

What a bullshit. More than 95% of the Moroccan people in Holland is doing good and is not a criminal. Moroccans are not the number one criminals in Morocco. In the prisons it is full with People from east-Europe, people from Suriname and from Antilles etc..

The problem in Holland is that the media doesn't like Moroccans. If one Moroccan does something it is directly on the frontpage and often the tell lies about Moroccans..





For example:

After 11-9 the Dutch media said that Moroccan had a party on 11-9. Alle the media in the world took it over, but it was not true. A few weeks later the media said in small letters that the article was wrong..

A few months ago the media wrote that there was riots in Amsterdam, but it was not true and the police said there was no riots with Moroccans..

A few weeks ago alle the media wrote about criminal Moroccans who went to holiday to Morocco, everybody was angry even the politici, but the article was bullshit it where not criminals but students who where doing a project..

The media in Holland is only interested in bad news about Moroccans, if the can not find some the make it up..

etc etc



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/21/2007 06:12 by Mister1979.

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hitman

Quote

That is in Dakhilia much worser. The woman in Casa, Rabat, Marrakech etc have big problems with their men. A lot of men hit their woman or divorce them and put them on the street with their childeren..
That is why the king came with the new womanlaw...
In Casablanca etc thousands of divorced woman lives on the street with their childeren and nobody cares about them.

In my own Family (all from the region of casablanca) there is no man who hits his woman. Also the families of my friends etc it's the same story. Maybe there are some women who get hit, but not as much as ryafa. And don't forget the culture aspects. Ryafa women are worth nothing if they leave their husbands. Sorry to say it but it's the truth.

Peace.

In my own Family there is too no man who hits his wife. I know no man who hits his wife.


Check the VIDEO about the woman in Dakilia who are dumped on the street with their childeren and beaten by their men...

[player.omroep.nl]

No offense Mister1979, but half of this women are not even speaking Moroccan (darizja). Thus they are not all from dakhiliya. Besides don't forget the fact that most women who divorce from other cities go down to casablanca and other big cities for work and money. Most of them finish on the streets.

I admit there are problems with men, but don't just blame men only. Most of this women are not even aware of the new laws and did not had any education. If they only had education they surely will understand their rights.

Peace.

Salam;
I'm not sure if the topic is about Lottery System or Ryaffa and dakhil prostituing.

For those who bad mouth Moroccans (educated and non educated alike) get a grip. every Moroccan back in Morocco should thank MREs everytime they return to lebled.
MRE supported Millions of Families for more than 50 years and still sending huge sums of cash to their relatives to spend in Moroccan economy.
The same Moroccans who wear JELABAS overseas to save couple of thousands of dollars that their (parents,cousins,brothers,sisters, MOROCCAN ECONOMY) get to enjoy.

An educated Moroccan might help his/her country with some kind of expertise or not, and also HARD WORKING (uneducated = donkies as someone called them) men send Billions of dollars to Morocco. And without them Morocco will be in deep shit. Moroccan economy is around 40 billions dollars,and MREs contributions are almost 10% of that if not more.

Imagine if the same Uneducated Moroccans you talk about never left Morocco, let me see hemmm for the last 40 years Moroccan imiigrate to Europe 40years x 5 BILLIONS MINIMUM = 200 BILLION...YOU CAN SELL SARDINE AND TOMATOS ALL YOU WANT, BUT YOU WILL NEVER EARN 200 BILLIONS DOLLARS.

Another point, MOST educated Moroccans in the US at least don't visit Morocco every 6 MONTHS or even every year, those with shitty jobs do, and they spend their hard earned money on stupid RAM, and in Morocco in ramada,summer,Aids. Educted ones tend to have less vacation time, and the majority takes vacation to other countries, or within the US.

There are lot of Moroccans here in the US who would love to attend colleges, BUT because they have to support an ailing parent or a lazy brother they sacrify education and good carreer...

I don't deny that there are some Moroccans in the US who choose to drive Cabs, work in the restanrant business and not bother going to school. They are free to do whatever they want with their lives.You guys have no right to bad mouth them for "not giving Morocco a good image abroad".
Morocco already has a bad reputation with its prostitution and corruption etc...

And for the guy/gal who compares Moroccans to Egyptians and Lebanese; I say, they ve in the US for 100 of years, and they are not better than Moroccans. The majority of Moroccans didn't immigrate to the US until the 90s, and believe me, there are lot of Doctors,Lawyers,Accountants,managers, engineers, and many more are attending College as we speak.