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Morocco # English board

منتدى المغرب و المغاربة حول العالم

Hi everyone,


what do you think about Moroccan girls or women who choose to live alone before the marriage?...I've talked recently to a neighbor’s daughter who is 36 years old ... has got good job.....stable income and can buy her own apartment ....she would like to live alone because she feels adult enough to manage her life without the family...she can’t cup with the conflicts between the family members home any more....she says in her age she needs her peace and space and it’s time to be independent... but she can’t because the family will not allow it and the Moroccan society doesn’t tolerate this....she told me she’s got many female friends between 30 and 40 in her situation who didn’t find the “right man” ...are able to buy their own property and wish to run the solo lifestyle but it’s not possible...... in the Moroccan society many people think that a single women living alone must be a bad one.... something must be wrong with her.....is that judgement eligible ?....can’t we respect...recognize and trust a woman until she’s married?.....is that fair for those women who weren’t lucky to meet the soul mate?.... what do you think about this as a Moroccan living abroad and in Morocco?.....

Why not? Thats one of the crazy thing about our culture, I thought most people have left that stupid part behind but I guess not.

Hi Ilhem2,

Telquel made his frontpage about that, a few months ago, it's an interesting reading :

[www.telquel-online.com]

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Kutchia
Why not? Thats one of the crazy thing about our culture, I thought most people have left that stupid part behind but I guess not.

Hi Kutchia and welcome by the way,

our people don’t change easily….nothing is left behind or not much really…just surf in this forum and you’ll see that even people living in modern societies still keep a biiiig stupid part….

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chelhman
Hi Ilhem2,

Telquel made his frontpage about that, a few months ago, it's an interesting reading :

[www.telquel-online.com]

Hi chelhman,

thanks for the like...intersting indead....I wish we could have such article in English so we don't needc to refere to Frensh stuff again and again......

Quote
Ilhem2

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chelhman
Hi Ilhem2,

Telquel made his frontpage about that, a few months ago, it's an interesting reading :

[www.telquel-online.com]

Hi chelhman,

thanks for the like...intersting indead....I wish we could have such article in English so we don't needc to refere to Frensh stuff again and again......

Yeah same wish here!

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Yeah same wish here!

you really don't like French Kutchia looool

Lol no I really don't and to be honest most French people don't give a damn either besides that new Macho president they elected where he in his speech to the nation regrets that I have choosen German as my 3rd language, but I guess he was drunk when he said it so that doesn't count.

Macho is the least we can say about him...

but what it is exactly that you don't like about French culture. Or rather, is there anything, or 1 thing even that you like about French?

Yes I can name a lot. The health care they don't give a damn what it costs people should have health care. The idea of equlity (spelled right?)). Wonderful country. Great food. The language dosn't sound like you are chooking (Dutch anyone?). They were against the American agression towards Iraq.

There are more thing i don't like though.
What bothers me most though is that Morocco is so influenced by the French culture. We are not French, we are Moroccans in good and bad not French. Adopt what is good for our nation an reject the rest. I think Minimouse made a good point in the other thread.

guys can we come back to the main topic "women living alone.."....thanks

Sorry Ilhem...

Kutchia, i think we should open a separate topic for French and Moroccans. I'll let you do that as it was your idea

Slow day at work so : I think it's great for women to live alone, feel free to leave your phone numbers girls

As for the debate, I'm waiting for the "it's a disgrace, they undermine the fabric of our muslim societies", then I'll come back in full gear



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2007 05:41 by chelhman.

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I think it's great for women to live alone, feel free to live your phone numbers girls

lol chelhman, you're so wicked!!

I'm afraid that doesn't apply to me anymore...I lost my freedom 5 years ago when i wet my other half however i lived alone for 6 years before that and enjoyed it to the full so no regrets
Gosh so many years that makes me look awfully old but i swear i'm not

Hi all,

Quote
chelhman
Slow day at work so : I think it's great for women to live alone, feel free to leave your phone numbers girls

As for the debate, I'm waiting for the "it's a disgrace, they undermine the fabric of our muslim societies", then I'll come back in full gear

Hi Chehman,

since the mobile exists …..the family doesn’t have any power controlling the calls anyway…..that’s not the reason really….

I was waiting for the debate and points of view particularly from Moroccan men without any religion speeches again….then the issue is important for a lot of women back home ….the society is living a big change regarding this matter…..

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Minniemouse
…I'm afraid that doesn't apply to me anymore...I lost my freedom 5 years ago when i wet my other half however i lived alone for 6 years before that and enjoyed it to the full so no regrets
Gosh so many years that makes me look awfully old but i swear i'm not

Hi Minniemouse,

It’s about women in Morocco…then in the western countries the problem is not there....I've lived alone as well …was nice time indeed…. as you experienced it yourself so what do you think…would you understand those women?….

Ilhem, I forgot to mention that I lived alone for 6 years in Morocco not abroad. I've always been independant and have made it clear to my parents that if they wanted me to succeed, they should let me choose my own path and never interfere and they did and thank god i never disappointed them and made them proud of me. I left home at 17 to study at uni and after graduation i moved to Casablanca and settled there on my own. I had an exciting job and did a lot of travelling and my family never objected to that, i think it's a matter of trust and education. Usually parents who are educated bring up their children in a democratic and relaxed environment. They know that they should let them experiment things and allow them a certain level of freedom and that excessive authority could lead to a lack of confidence and frustration later on.
Funny enough, my sister who is older than me and single has lived with my parents all her life. It was her choice as unlike me, she has always been reserved and a little bit introverted so my parents have always been too protective towards her. And when my dad passed away, she decided to leave home and go for new pastures so she moved to another city, got herself an appartement and started a new career; but my mum was never in peace, she was constantly worried about her, would go and visit her many times a year and 1 year later she moved in with her My sister feels a little bit frustrated because of that, she even thinks that my mum doesn't trust she can take care of herself but it's just the way things have always been, she worries too much about her.
As you said, mentalities back home have come a long way, if you think that 50 years ago, girls were not allowed to wear jeans, go to universities in some regions or go study abroad...the same thing will happen with this issue, people are getting used to seeing single women affording their own properties just as they are used to seeing them smoking in cafes.
I personally can't see an issue at all, if a woman can afford to live on her own why not? what i disagree with is the thought that women do not need a man and don't feel the need to start a family..that is just the course of life and trying to run away from it or change it will lead to a generation of old men and women living miserably on their own, there is nothing worse than growing old and dying in loneliness...

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Ilhem2
I was waiting for the debate and points of view particularly from Moroccan men without any religion speeches again….then the issue is important for a lot of women back home ….the society is living a big change regarding this matter…..

Well, my point of view is not going to be very representative but here it goes : I think it's an inevitable consequence of our society evolving towards more affirmation for women.
However, I don't think it's that common, it is still a hard thing to do for girls, if I take the branch of my family in Morocco, it's still unthinkable for an unmarried woman to move from home, unless she has to move to another town for a job.
Women are still considered eternal minors somehow, she goes from the father/brothers jurisdiction to the husband's. It'll take at least another generation before that changes.

I think it's only fair that women experience a little privacy before getting tied down with a family life, fair because men have been doing it for a while now and it didn't seem to bother the parents.
And nothing like the experience of the peaceful silence of one's apartment when you come home, slipping into a bath with the tiny perfumed candles around, listening to Kenny G or Sarah Mclachlan (how very 90's) or al 7ajja al 7amdawouia... but the rythmic spasms in the bathtub would put out the candles on this one
Moroccan homes are usually multigenerational and peace is not on the menu when you pass the doorstep, it's usually something like "j'bti m3ak la7lib ???" or "ssiri choufi bbwak ach bgha !" put that in a shreeking voice of course and you'll have every Moroccan's mother or aunt conjured up in your mind.


Adding to the series of clichés in my analysis, money plays a big part here, since women become earners, they can start exercizing a certain independence, I'm not saying it doesn't come with a few complications but it's for those who are bothered by it to deal with their prejudice not the women.

One more thing : this has nothing to do with any foreign culture's influence, I see it more like a natural evolution of a society's structure, women have been bearing the brunt of our most conservative traditions silently, I see no problem in them throwing away the shackles on some issues.
Besides, we are a very family-oriented people so Moroccans will still be Moroccans, I don't see this jeopardizing the family nucleus as we know it, houses will still be places filled with noises, family members will still gather around the table for meals, having and being an emotional support for others will be still be what we're about, if you add a few years of privacy for women before reproducing herself our typical mediterranean family model, I see only upsides.

Hi

for women to live alone is matter of choice, I guess lot of Moroccan women now lives alone or want to live alone to get more freedom and get away from parents and brothers question where were you and where u going?

I have that feeling if any women choose to do so, don´t expect much from men to be understanding. cause our society is developing very fast, may be 90 % of the population can´t follow with it.


Moroccans generaly looks negatif about that matter, so is a pris for a women to pay cause in a lot of men eyes "she is an easy target!!", and they are easy target... cause when you don´t have a control system at home you can be carried out by the temptation.

that goes for men too, most men that lives alone in Morocco or abroad are been carried out by the temptation.

is very known for men in every society, "divorced and single women that lives alone" are easy to get, cause they suffer from loneliness.

control system can be the familly, religion or a strong well, but that last mostely break down if you really not that strong and you wish for not to meet the wrong people.

if you are pretty and you live alone ohhhh!! they are many men they will offer the time and the money to get a piece of you, that is a challenge and a game men love to play. men may not always win in it but women always loos. again women reputation... that will even scare serious man from taking the right move.


but if a woman want to live alone and did not care about mariage and all that stuff, i guess people words wont matter. they can talk to the day they die.

The same problem suffer from carreer women in western world lot of them can´t get both, "succes at work and familly life". is hard to get both, except if you meet an understanding man that can help you through...

I am not a big fan of women living alone, cause our society suffer from less mariages and more women with bad reputation so less mariages.
may be like we say "Mariage is just a matter of luck".

PS. Why should any men or women want to live alone specialy if the familly are in the same town??
except like Ilhem said you can not handle the familly...

From my olden days rich guys that have there own appartment, use it to party in it. and they were still living at home with the parent.

hmmm that may be what women are looking for heheheh!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2007 09:26 by aziz_dk.

Thanks Ilhem2 its a good subjet

Well it brings a lot of things all at once & because of customs & ways in Labled that is why its stil an issue ,my view is man ,women are all free to choose when to move out but i'am aware of what this brings in Labled & thats why most of the girls are moving to other cities at least its more of a reason to move out & may be as Aziz said to party too & why not if the boys do it why shouldn't the girls have a go too (i did when i moved out).

I know that more & mores ladies have good jobs ,manage to have a nice place ,car ect & they are enjoying life ( i feel jalous when i hear my foreign friend telling me their Moroccan girls friends picked them up from the airport & they stayed with them ect ,I have to pay for a hire car & the rest !!)

On a serious note we have a lots of contradictions in Labled & we treat ladies very badly & we put them down every time & this is why we are where we are now ( think of a girls was walking to work she get haustled by almost every one & she has to hear it all + every bastard with moped ,car lorry ...will stop & insult her we should be a shamed ,i know i'am !

PS: to answer those voices : why i allow my sisters to leave home ect the answer is yes providing they are independant finacially & have their heards between their shoulders !

Sorry did not have a chance to browse the answer so might be repetitive...
This is a very tough stuation indeed. Women in Morocco are considered as "mineures" by their parents until they get married and often the same story continues after marriage, due to their husbands attitude. Yes a woman who is 36 should be able to live on her own without having to justify and explain and apologize for the situation but are our countrymen ready for this, except in big cities such as Casablanca,and even then you ca,'t escape gossip, I sincerely doubt it.

36 years old

in fact, it's time to find some independance..

Why not we are in 2007 not in 1935 wake up every one

well, i think that its an important topic to talk about.For me i think the arabs in general have a wrong image about " freedom"....!!!!some of us say that The advantage that they like the most is - freedom and independence.they can almost do whatever they want, any time they want and any way they want, and this is wrong because Freedom is more then that.Living alone is unhealthy for the majority of ppl and especially for the girls,of course it depends on each persons situation.
However; im agree with those who are far from their familly,and they have their own financial resources; in that case i see that their is no problem to live alone and we have a lot of exapmle about that like the teachers....etc.

personally, i don't see any problem with it. I have 2 sisters who have both lived away from home to study. one of then went abroad twice. My parent encouraged them and did all they could to help.

Times have changed, I think it's quite common nowadays.

It also depends on which area of Morocco as well as I have noticed there are some big cultural differences between north and south, east and west...

every human being has the right to choose what he wants in this life , women or men ,
i can t see why women should put up with these kind of mentalities !!!!!it s ridiculous
women nowadays became stronger , more independant with strong personnalities
moroccan woman in particular in the last 15 years started to chalenge and question all these stone age traditions invented by men , in my last visit to Morocco i was very pleased to see women working in petrol stations, taxi drivers , police.....etc
a Moroccan women living on her own is not a big deal beacuse simply the moroccan woman is not anymore this shy weak creator which need to be hidden or put in locked cage with an ugly beardy man garding it and bullying the poor woman every five secs
the time of slavery is over and i think it s about time women take the lead and be in charge of their own life i am sure the world will be a beter place