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Will Muslims Ever wake up?
m
24 November 2006 23:44
Quote
LeMask
Krim it started at the 9/11 attacks... i never really cared about religion.
i believe in god since i'm a kid. but it was more "spirituality" than real religion. in my family there isnt any religious person. my mom is the most religious, but she never gave us a religious education, she practice it in her room, you can see her praying somedays, that is all.

in high school, i learned a lot about religion, i loved religion, i saw it as a miracle solution to all our problems. but i was a kid, i was more interested in girls than in religion or god to be honest.

but when the 9/11 attacks were on TV, i started to really care. but i never left it out. i think about religion very often, but i didnt take the time to read or to really study it, i have my life as a student to do first. maybe later when i have time.

so i started to think about religion at 18-19... in university i speak about religion, but i have no muslims in my cirle of friends. maybe one or two, but these guys are (god forgives me) totally retarded... they are antisemitic and racist... a weird mix of nationalism and religion.

my closest "friend" in religion, is an Israeli Zionist in a forum... he is a total Nazi to be honest... but i like a coherence in the way he thinks. he lived a trauma and wants to see his people (the jews) rise again. i think that i'm "somehow" in the same situation... "somehow". i hate him and see him as an enemy, but i understand him. he isnt really good, but he is honest.

anyway, i'm more interested in economics in religion... i hate capitalism and LOVE communism... but unfortunately, communism isnt respecting the unequal nature of the human being and doesnt respect the right to own.
communism is a perfect system and it's unfortunately imcompatible with the unperfect nature of man.

but god is much sharper than any man, and he gave us an ideal system to live our lives without sucking the blood of weaker people.

and i can say that about every law in Islam. i'm so sure that it would work.
you just cant know how sure i am. i really think that if we try to follow it with a little good intent, we will save ourselves from destruction...
and i feel frustration... we are so weak right now, and we hesitate... it's like a poor man fearing to loose the few money he got in his pocket. what do we have to loose? let's take the risk. let's play the big win.

LeMask
I think you have to talk to your friends about the big win.
This forum is anonymous, it is difficult to discuss many issues.
So please find someone you trust and discuss with him.
I feel you need some help.
A
AyL
24 November 2006 23:45
hehehe smiling smiley.. funny ..but the good thing .. that he keeps fighitng .. and thats good smiling smiley
A
AyL
24 November 2006 23:49
[www.youtube.com] something to relax smiling smiley
24 November 2006 23:51
Almot , the big win i talk about is to live following our religious laws...

the big risk is to say sh** to the westerners, and to live life without caring about them (our countries are still a big market for them, they wont let it happen easily).

and what i meant by "caring about religion since 9/11" is about... i was surprised the day i saw these attacks, and then, i started to ask myself "are they really muslims?" ... and then i found so many contradictions between terrorism and Islam...

and i pushed it further, i tried to find ANYTHING to convince the others that my religion wasnt about this. it's there where i met the Israeli dude and others... i was in a community of gamers, and i discovered a real hate for my religion. and it was depressing.
and i started to seek for other interpretations... and for solutions.

and right now i'm at the conspiracy theories about 9/11... Al-Quaeda.
i like to read from the voltaire network:
[www.voltairenet.org]

they arent always very sharp, but they said many interesting things in the past. they are the only ones i know who did post the speechs of Nasrallah after the crisis in Lebanon.

i'm just seeking informations right now... and more i learn the more i understand and the more i'm confused on other things.

and AyL is right, i'm just looking for the truth.
and my current level right now tells me that... politics and governments... it's just TOTAL BS... democracy isnt the ideal...
we have to ban these people from our lives. there is people trying to confuse us and use us... we are forced to start over... there is TOO MUCH BS in our lives... we cant go through without dumping a lot of stuff... and i'm sorry, but when you have poison in your arm, you better cut the arm to save your life... and dont worry, this arm will grow... it will take time. but do you have better things to do?

so yes, i dont fear to come back to middle ages... if it will give me a better futur... then why not?
s
25 November 2006 00:23
Salam alaykum

Sorry it was busy day at my work; I was unable answer or participate on this subject.

Actually I appreciate some stuff coming in moudawana but I can not make my opinion since I did not go thru everything on it.
I am with everything that protect against violence, it is too sad to see women suffering physically and morally with a husband and if you ask why she wouldn’t move away from that hell she will refuse .it is simple bcoz both her kids and she depend on the husband income.
The weird thing sometime you meet a single young beautiful highly educated indepented girl and she is suffering with a guy ,he is cheating on her ,abusing her materially and even physically she keeps complaining about him but as soon as he call her she runs back to him . Isn’t crazy? I have no explanation for that at least the first case she has no choice.


But really guys I have a qst for you here do u like to see a Moroccan women having same life as women in the west ,please please don t tell me here we have our tradition bcoz the couple culture will change too , personally I don t like to see myself having their life.
Single (even if they are divorced) mother running everywhere sad ,depressed yet they work but still they ask for government support, her ex is not working or has limited income and most of them (mothers ) put their depress on their kids.
At least at west the gourvenment support them financially but not emotionally but what about morocco? Is the government ready to support that single mother, the opportunity to find a job is very limited?
Certainly we will have the divorce percentage higher than the actual situation and most guys will refuse to get married unless the woman is rich too since they have to split everything 50 you gonna tell what about the prenup contract …..
I am just sharing my thought here so I will be happy to hear from you guys.
25 November 2006 00:30
sarah70, i saw many girls in this conditions...

it's called love, they love a guy and would do anything for him. sometimes they know exactly what they are doing and keep doing it.

i believe that it's in the nature of the woman... women are rational like men. the emotion part is very active in the process of taking a decision.

and since when emotions are rational? it's my personnal view of course...

and i personnaly dont know, you have to give a more accurate question.
what is good in the west, is that the women have more "freedom", they can leave when they want to. too easily sometimes.

in our countries it's another story...
there is much much more individualism in the western world, they care about the individual before the society. i'm not sure if it's good.

in Morroco i heard about many women who did a sacrifice (huge one) for the kids... in Europe... i heard about a girl complaining about her mother hanging out with a guy having the same age as her daughter...

and i saw plenty of divorced women here... many single mothers at 20 (one is 18 with a baby)...

but it's nothing new... i'm not surprised...
A
AyL
25 November 2006 00:34
Dear Sarah.. once a friend told me something i never forgot .. "mother happy .. children happy " i think the moroccan government should still work on it .. but it is just a start.. the first step... to make the big change ...
i dont know why u gave that bad idea bout single woman .. they are trying hard to raise their kids .. and i think living in a bad relationchip will be more destroying ...
A
AyL
25 November 2006 00:38
What are you talking about ????im rally surprised ..
A
25 November 2006 01:16
the subject is:
Will Muslims Ever wake up?,
For once in our life, lets try to go back to it,
people can open new subjects.
peace,
s
25 November 2006 02:32
salam alaykum

Almot

Quote
the subject is:
Will Muslims Ever wake up?,
For once in our life, lets try to go back to it
people can open new subjects.

it is part of the subject since the women and kids are a major element of the society ,when muslim will wake up i think the 1st field they would start with ,to protect those abused women and what would be the model ,our tradition and culture will not able to do something or even involved here .
s
25 November 2006 02:40
salam alaykum

Ayl

Quote
i dont know why u gave that bad idea bout single woman
i have no attention to give any idea or even opinion that is a fact ,i feel sad about them, they devote their life for raising kids alone that is not easy bcoz it happened by ignoring her imotional stabilty , she feels exhausted at early age.
A
AyL
25 November 2006 09:17
normal .. that she feel exhausted .. and every other mother will say the same .. single or a married ...
s
25 November 2006 12:53
salam alaykum

Quote
AyL
normal .. that she feel exhausted .. and every other mother will say the same .. single or a married ...

not same since for the couple both man/woman takes their part of the family responsability and at the end the wife/woman has a soul mate too.
A
AyL
25 November 2006 13:03
a soul mate .. dont make me laugh .. ure like saying that every married person is living with his soul mate ..whatromantic.. specially that u know how ppl get married in morocco ??? everything islike a big chaos .. im not trying to tell that morocco is bad but we should c the facts and acceppt them since we re having socail .. faily prob ....
25 November 2006 13:27
AyL some people believe in soul mates... it's romantic, not very scientific, but it's positive.

i personnaly dont believe in soul mates... but i believe that honest people can live together without problems. everything is in the intents... good intents=good people=good husband=good wife

because i'm opposed to the soul mates thingy... if god made soul mates, so did he made them cross each others paths?

because if my soul mate is Chinese... damn, i have no chance to go to China... NEVER, i dont want to go to China. sad smiley

unless you mean that the soul mate is the person you will finish your life with... in that case... oh, too difficult, i give up.
s
25 November 2006 13:35
salam alaykum

Quote
AyL
a soul mate .. dont make me laugh .. ure like saying that every married person is living with his soul mate ..whatromantic.. specially that u know how ppl get married in morocco ??? everything islike a big chaos .. im not trying to tell that morocco is bad but we should c the facts and acceppt them since we re having socail .. faily prob ....
well... in the west a single mother has difficulties to date and she finds her self in a situation accepting not a suitable man who does not only share with her family responsibility himself he becomes an extra responsibility for her. she support all and if you ask why all that she will replay i feel lonelyperplexe.

what i mean but now a day even in morocco the number of husband without any sense of responsability is in increase soon we will be there just the difference we are poor country.
A
AyL
25 November 2006 17:58
not all the single women are like this .. and i think every smart intelligent woman .. will chose to live alone and not get involved in a relationchip where she can lose ..ppl are trying to get a better life .. not the opposite.. im talking about every person who respects his dignity ..
ihave a prob with my english... i wish i had more vocubalary to express what i want to say .. but anywayim trying my best .. and i am learning from the best ... hasta la vista :p
25 November 2006 18:35
AyL what is the definition of "protect her dignity"?

it's a very complex concept, and it's different in our countries.
respect our dignity in Morroco = have sex only with your husband/wife

in western countries it's very different. a woman of 43 kissing her 21 years old boyfriend in front of her kids in the kitchen is somehow accepted...
A
AyL
25 November 2006 18:45
i said respect dignity ...
25 November 2006 18:47
same for me, but what to you mean by "dignity"? where is the limit?

so i dont know. it's weird...

and Krim , what do you mean by "wake up"? get rich? get smart? unite with other arab countries? turn into an Islamic republic? turn into a modern monarchy?

what?
A
AyL
25 November 2006 18:59
dignity =Quality suited to inspire respect or reverence; loftiness and grace; impressiveness; stateliness+The state of being worthy or honorable; elevation of mind or character; true worth; excellence..
25 November 2006 23:11
Quote
site4everything
Muslims will wake up one day and it is only a matter of time but will it be too late?
I like to point out that yes, I agree with the data that some of the most poorest countries in the world are Muslims but spiritually they are rich.
Quote

I rarely see a kid in Europe smiling even though he /she is living in a rich country in contrast with somebody living in a poor country
Quote

.
As soon as they gain that knowledge, they will loose their smile! I almost garantee it.
. The most important tool to advance us is knowledge and its proper use but saddly, it has been forgotten.
o
20 January 2013 00:47
Quote
Krim
By Ali Sina

2005/11/26

In an article entitled “What went wrong?” Dr Farrukh Saleem, a freelance writer from Islamabad painted a very bleak picture of the Islamic world showing the Muslims are the poorest, the most illiterate and the most backward people of the world. He wrote:

The combined annual GDP of 57 Muslim countries remains under $2 trillion. America , just by herself, produces goods and services worth $10.4 trillion; China $5.7 trillion, Japan $3.5 trillion and Germany $2.1 trillion. Even India 's GDP is estimated at over $3 trillion (purchasing power parity basis).

Oil rich Saudi Arabia , U.A.E., Kuwait and Qatar collectively produce goods and services (mostly oil) worth $430 billion; Netherlands alone has a higher annual GDP while Buddhist Thailand produces goods and services worth $429 billion.

Muslims are 22 percent of the world population and produce less than five percent of global GDP. Even more worrying is that the Muslim countries' GDP as a percent of the global GDP is going down over time. The Arabs, it seems, are particularly worse off. According to the United Nations' Arab Development Report: "Half of Arab women cannot read; One in five Arabs live on less than $2 per day; Only 1 percent of the Arab population has a personal computer, and only half of 1 percent use the Internet; Fifteen percent of the Arab workforce is unemployed, and this number could double by 2010; The average growth rate of the per capita income during the preceding 20 years in the Arab world was only one-half of 1 percent per annum, worse than anywhere but sub-Saharan Africa."

The planet's poorest countries include Ethiopia , Sierra Leone , Afghanistan , Cambodia , Somalia , Nigeria , Pakistan and Mozambique . At least six of the poorest of the poor are countries with a Muslim majority.

Conclusion: Muslims of the world are among the poorest of the poor.

Fifty-seven Muslim majority countries have an average of ten universities each for a total of less than 600 universities for 1.4 billion people; India has 8,407 universities, the U.S. has 5,758. From within 1.4 billion Muslims Abdus Salam and Ahmed Zewail are the only two Muslim men who won a Nobel Prize in physics and chemistry (Salam pursued his scientific work in Italy and the UK , Zewail at California Institute of Technology). Dr Salam in his home country is not even considered a Muslim.

Over the past 105 years, 1.4 billion Muslims have produced eight Nobel Laureates while a mere 14 million Jews have produced 167 Nobel Laureates. Of the 1.4 billion Muslims less than 300,000 qualify as 'scientists', and that converts to a ratio of 230 scientists per one million Muslims. The United States of America has 1.1 million scientists (4,099 per million); Japan has 700,000 (5,095 per million).

Fact: Of the 1.4 billion Muslims 800 million are illiterate (6 out of 10 Muslims cannot read). In Christendom, adult literacy rate stands at 78 percent.

Consider, for instance, that Muslims constitute 22 percent of world population with a 1 percent share of Nobel Prizes. Jews constitute 0.23 percent of world population with a 22 percent share of Nobel Prizes.

What really went wrong? Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak. What went wrong? Arriving at the right diagnosis is extremely critical because the prescription depends on it. Consider this:

Here is where I thought he is going to tell it like it is and make it clear that Islam is the cause of it all. But you will be surprised to see what were Dr. Saleem's diagnoses:

Diagnosis 1: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because they have 'abandoned the divine heritage of Islam'. Prescription: We must return to our real or imagined past.

Diagnosis 2: Muslims are poor, illiterate and weak because we have refused to change with time.

Keep pace with time -- al Quran
i
20 January 2013 16:56
Quote
chelhman
Interesting article, the figures are eloquent, 57 muslim countries produce less than Germany ?
I wonder if they've factored in muslim brains outside their homelands and contributing to the prosperity of western countries.

Either way, if the conditions were favorable, they would go back and change the tide. Something to think about Mrs Chekrounismiling smiley
such comparison may conceal reality.
to be accurate, we should compare the urban populationof the 57 muslim countries with German urban population.
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