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Morocco # English board

منتدى المغرب و المغاربة حول العالم

It's a never ending story, Muslims take to the streets again to protest against the west. what the hell is wrong with us? It's just a medal, why do we have to burn and kill just for this?

Again, we will be protrayed as primitive people, double faced and Immature. Quick to take offence and quick to offend others as well. A pakistani minister has just said that suicide bombers are justified because of this. What a moron.

The question should be "What's wrong with the others?" Those whose offenses never end. It's too simple minded to see that as a mere medal. Take a quick look around you, you'll see who does and start all the burnings and killings. If you don't care, others do! and stop your meskin complaints! today's world needs real men.

Quote
Passerby
It's a never ending story, Muslims take to the streets again to protest against the west. what the hell is wrong with us? It's just a medal, why do we have to burn and kill just for this?

Again, we will be protrayed as primitive people, double faced and Immature. Quick to take offence and quick to offend others as well. A pakistani minister has just said that suicide bombers are justified because of this. What a moron.

Thanks for your message. It is really what the majority thinks; but the fanatics and those who want to pour oil on fire are more interested in manipulating the people for their dark schemes...

I still believe that the fanatics were not born fanatics, although I'm not sure what the word means anymore. I'm sure these offenders knew who they were decorating. Not just a writer for sure!

Anyhow, I will not be bothered at all: Rushdie is free to write and say what he thinks and let be for everybody.

Passerby I totally agree with you. It´s like if we have no brain, only feelings.That is actually what we are as you said it, primitive people, double faced and Immature. Quick to take offence and quick to offend others as well
A non muslim, resident in a non muslim society criticises islam. And other non muslims agree with him, or inaugurates him for his struggle to say what he thinks.Put these ingredients toghether and guess what do we get. Public disorder, flags and pictures burning, treaths, a fatwa and somebody has to die during the violent protests.

Quote
gloom
The question should be "What's wrong with the others?" Those whose offenses never end. It's too simple minded to see that as a mere medal. Take a quick look around you, you'll see who does and start all the burnings and killings. If you don't care, others do! and stop your meskin complaints! today's world needs real men.

what are you talking about?
The mere fact that you are saying that today's world needs "real men" highlights your backward mentality. Why do you think women are not needed? (and what makes you think I am not a real man btw?)

Funny that you are asking me to stop "meskin complaints" and you see no problem with people meskin complaining about Mr Rushdie.

I tried several years ago to read his satanic verses, the truth I didn't find it interesting to read. There are much better books on the market. at the time Khomeini participated on him being famous, if it weren't for that I don't think it would have sold so many copies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2007 06:46 by riffman.

Knighthood... so what! he could be given the queen's crown for what I care!.
We always moan... that's why there will be cartoons, the pope will make comments, the politicians will call us names, etc... the day we give the cold shoulder to these kind of things, and ignore the "so-called" provocations, may be they'll stop. or we can pick on their religion, why not? but this thing of killing other muslims on riots, and things like that does not help, on the contrary it brings in more and more people who will find the chance to spill more oil on the fire.

FYI passerby, i never meant "men" to be the sex related. I said "men" in relation to people. I never said you're not a real men either, so don't get too excited.
Freedom is not the right to offend others. I am not for wild rioting, but for the right to be angry and to express that feeling. If this is backward mentality, then be it!

Agree with you Passerby. So-called real men better look for how they could make a change in the condition of the Muslim world instead of demonstrating for the wrong reasons. So much so demonstrations have become a liability instead of being an efficient tool of protest in our hands. No one has risen Rushdie to the top as much as Muslims when they issued a fatwa to kill him decades ago. We have made him famous and it is "thanks" to us that he is now going to be knighted, so we're protesting again to give him even more importance..and there goes our never ending self-destruction process.

I have read in the Guardian today that sales of "Satanic Verses" are soaring again. We are just making this guys richer than he is already thanks to us. What silly people we are.

I have just checked myself on Amazon: It's ranked n°14 on www.amazon.co.uk and n°95 on www.amazon.com

Soon, it will sell better than Harry Potter. It makes my blood boil.

Salman Rushdie was decorated just because he wrote what he wrote in his book, killing him would make a martyr out of him, let's think about something else hummmm.. how about an accident ? run over by a truck or something like that, sure he should be bumped off for the offending stuff he wrote, ugly SOB !

I think that these kind of issues should not be given more attention and interest than they deserve...reacting in a such a way sure will give opportunity to those who want to depict us violent, so lets just ignore him... i think we should be more busy trying to change first ourselves and then our countries, we have a lot of probelems to deal with, poverty,illetracy etc,....

In my opinion those are people who don´t care about what Salman Rushdie wrote. They´re just populists trying to get some influence on the political scene. So that the whole world would always ask, if we do this what would those guys say to it, and how would they react etc... On the other hand they love to appear as if they are the only ones doing something for muslims arround the world. The problem is that they are just doing the wrong thing...

Salman is free to talk about islam. Islam is universal, it doesn't make parts to the only muslims.

Islam champions talks and dialogue. Hellman Rushdie did not talk. He insulted. Different ethnics all over the planet have always defended their faiths in any way possible. Christians have waged wars to promote the cross. They are still killing in the name of the cross. Recent history shows Sikhs, Harikrishna and other ethnics in UK, Japan and South America leading violent protests because someone offended their symbols. Many organizations, including those within the UN have jumped in to help them. I'm not bothered by this double standard, but I'm saddened by Muslims being part of the game. The West only respects you when you show strenght and dignity. You may lose the battle, but you preserve your dignity.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2007 03:27 by gloom.

I don't know why you're all wasting your time debating this when the person concerned is certainly enjoying his achievement. Yes, Rushdie's knighthood was and intended to be provocative but it looks like it's really serving it's purpose which is to divide muslims worldwide. Having 2 groups,one that defends him and one that insults him is totally meaningless and won't change a thing to what happened except raising his popularity even more. Do you think the sales of his books would have risen if the reactions of muslims haven't been so vehement? i don't think so. It's a media ploy which people in Pakistan and other muslim countries fell into. But of course we have to thank Iran for making us look pathetically narrow minded and giving the west this wonderful oppeortunity to humiliate us whenever they can.

false again, the threadstarter is sooo biased.

the prime minister in fact said that this kind of things CAN justify suicide bombings and terror attacks from extremists...

this man said some things about the prophet and wrote a strang book about some "evil versets" in the holy Coran.
there was even a fatwa because of that. Iran promised to forgive him. but the British honor him.

it's ridiculous, the West always rewards anyone saying a bad thing about Islam... and you want the Muslims to smile like idiots?

sorry dude, they can keep their tolerance for themselves. we believe in freedom of speech, but there is some limits.
and it looks like this man crossed the invisible line with our Shiite brothers.
he should mind of his own bussiness.

if you put your nose in the affairs of the Muslims, then you put also your neck.
i'm for independance.

he should mind of his own bussiness.

No LeMask, I dont expect Muslims to smile like idiots. I would have prefered they ignored him. Simple as that. If it weren't to us, this guys would have stayed an unknown and penniless author. We have made him rich and famous.

You keep expressing your hatred on this forum for other religions, why Mr Rushdie should not be allowed to do the same?

i dont express my hatred toward other religions...
what are you talking about?

i leave them alone most of the time. i have better things to do with my life than to insult other religious beliefs.

and i never wrote a book to show how i think that another religion is ridiculous...

LeMask, I think Passerby is right here. The best attitude is to ignore Rushdie and those who wanted to glorify him. If we didn't give him enough importance, he would never have gained this popularity. Plus Rushdie doesn't think that Islam is a ridiculous religion, he was born muslim and like many believers, he thinks Islam needs to be reformed. His book is a complete fiction and totally meaningless and is based on a simple old legend. Any person with a bit of common sense would not believe what he was saying about the prophet. Rushdie apologised twice for writing this book. There are hunderds of writers out of there who destroy Islam and no condamns them. Oriana Fallaci was one of them but many people haven't even heard of her!
There are much more important issues to debate right now. Focusing on this story just because it touches one's religious beliefs won't change a thing.

Passerby can be right... but it's very random. just like luck... i have a little idea about him...

his answer is just a provocation...

i didnt burn any car or anything when there was the crisis about the prophet caricatures... and i saw the news about this Salmane Rushdy. and even if i could, i wouldnt do anything...

i dont care...

but dont give me this freedom of speech BS... nobody is free to say everything he wants... we have a thing called responsibility.
if you think that the Jews are criminals... it's your right. but when you express it, some people may believe you and attack an innocent Jew... and his innocent blood will be on your hand... or on your tongue or pen...

and a Muslim family have the right to ask it's sons and daughters to be Muslims. so if you insult a prophet and his book... and make them loose their faith. you are somehow an aggressor. you destroyed the work of a father/mother... you destroyed something...

i believe in freedom, but i dont believe in anarchy.
people should mind their own bussiness.

and i like these people who say "we can joke about everything, but not anywhere, at anytime or with anybody..." it's about humor, but it can work for a lot of things...

when an american mother is burying her son, who lost his life in Iraq... it's not the time to come to tell her that her son was a vulgar mercenary working for the big evil USA...

even if it's 100% true, it's NOT the right time.

and you dont make jokes about Jew massacre in a tour in Auschwitz...

and this Salmane Rochdy is talking in a bad way about a religion in a time when everybody is attacking this religion...
in a time where there is a huge fight with fanatics...
in a time where a lot of people are angry and sick of what is going on...

today, just say anything bad about Islam and they will give you medals...
i'm sorry, but this is not a time for criticism...

be positive, or deal with the consequences...

FYI: The satanic verses were not written today but in 1988 and it's not the only book of Rushdie. It's just one topic among others. Unfortunately, Muslims made it the most popular piece of work when it could have been a meaningless piece of rubbish.

LeMask are you saying that the honnor of the prophet (saws), all muslims and the holy coran depends on what Mr Salman Rushdie writes. Why not prove him wrong by debating him instead. You don´t make people respect you by treaths. But by dialogue and reason. We muslims believe that the bible and the torah aren´t the true words of gods, but manipulated by men. Should christians and jews forbidden us that believe? You have your religion, and you have the right to practice it. Do it and leave other people practice their´s.
You wrote that nobody is free to say what they want, and that there´s a limit. Well tell me please, who should tell people what to think, what to say and when? Who should draw that invisible line that you´re talking about?
My advise. Go and buy his book. Read it. And give your shut. Debate him, and prove him wrong. The whole world is witnessing that out of one and a half billion muslims, nobody is able to that.
Panic, treaths and violence are proof of immaturity, incompetence and intollerence. But it seems that it´s our signature.

sincerely cali

cali? doesnt work on me.
when a honored man gets insulted... it's your duty to clean the offense.

my father was an honest man. who worked hard, who never cheated on the rights of anyone.
if someone insults him, its only justice if he pays the price... the high price. how can we live in a world where good people get insulted?

and the debate should happen BEFORE the talk... you judge people, and you sentence them after the judgment... not the opposite.

and i'm deeply sorry for you if you dont understand. but it's not a threat.

and the exemple of the Torah and the Bible is interesting, but everybody knows that it took a lot of time to collect the Torah and the Bible... Christians know very well about the "corrections"... the Jews too.

but these scriptures are from god. modified, but from god... and they felt the "magic" in these words. this is why we forgive them. because they are victims of the divine touch in these words.

it's not so offensive as a position...

but once again, you take the example of a people... it's a man.

and once again, i dont fully understand the debate. for me (personnal belief here ! dont throw rocks) the prophet was a messenger from god. a good man. a perfect Muslim. but still a man... who was able to make mistakes.
i think that it would be an error (the same error as the christians in fact) to put Mohammed next to god by giving him perfection...

but the Shiites think that Mohammed was perfect and that the clergy (the 12th Imams i think) are perfect too...
i'm not of this belief at all.

but i accuse this Salmane Rushdie of being an apostate talking bad about Islam to make money...
back stabbing traitors...

Quote
cali
LeMask are you saying that the honnor of the prophet (saws), all muslims and the holy coran depends on what Mr Salman Rushdie writes. Why not prove him wrong by debating him instead. You don´t make people respect you by treaths. But by dialogue and reason. We muslims believe that the bible and the torah aren´t the true words of gods, but manipulated by men. Should christians and jews forbidden us that believe? You have your religion, and you have the right to practice it. Do it and leave other people practice their´s.
You wrote that nobody is free to say what they want, and that there´s a limit. Well tell me please, who should tell people what to think, what to say and when? Who should draw that invisible line that you´re talking about?
My advise. Go and buy his book. Read it. And give your shut. Debate him, and prove him wrong. The whole world is witnessing that out of one and a half billion muslims, nobody is able to that.
Panic, treaths and violence are proof of immaturity, incompetence and intollerence. But it seems that it´s our signature.

sincerely cali

This is the most sensible thing I've read so far on this post.

yes, very sensible... but it's also irresponsible.
how are we going to live if any douche bag in the streets can talk as he wish about the beliefs of the others...

and then we let our enemies make hugs and kisses with the people who betrayed us...

sorry guys, but we are at war, these arent our friends. now, we should find a way to get rid of them. because they arent respectful, or peaceful, or nice... they are blood sucking scum...

they will smile to you, they will hug you and kiss you to make you drop your defense... they will give sweet food and the freedom to do anything you want... to make you loose your discipline... to make you fat and weak... they will try to buy you with gold and pleasures...

but listen to your heart from time to time. dont let them take control of your mind. what kind of people insult the prophet?
good people try to understand, and they keep a lot of thoughts to themselves. everybody have doubts. but when you have a doubt, it means that there is something you dont understand yet. it doesnt mean that you hold the truth.

in fact, deep in their hearts, they are looking for trouble.

LeMask, I haven't read the book, you obviously have, so could you quote me the passage where he insults the Prophet ?
I want to know what got these people, and it seems you as well, so enraged.
Thanks a bunch



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2007 04:16 by chelhman.

Quote
LeMask
yes, very sensible... but it's also irresponsible.
how are we going to live if any douche bag in the streets can talk as he wish about the beliefs of the others...

and then we let our enemies make hugs and kisses with the people who betrayed us...

sorry guys, but we are at war, these arent our friends. now, we should find a way to get rid of them. because they arent respectful, or peaceful, or nice... they are blood sucking scum...

they will smile to you, they will hug you and kiss you to make you drop your defense... they will give sweet food and the freedom to do anything you want... to make you loose your discipline... to make you fat and weak... they will try to buy you with gold and pleasures...

but listen to your heart from time to time. dont let them take control of your mind. what kind of people insult the prophet?
good people try to understand, and they keep a lot of thoughts to themselves. everybody have doubts. but when you have a doubt, it means that there is something you dont understand yet. it doesnt mean that you hold the truth.

in fact, deep in their hearts, they are looking for trouble.

Do you wanna go to war with the West?

Very laughable indeed.
(we are lucky that there are not many people who think like you in the West, otherwise they would annihilate us in half a second)