i would know, what is the situation of morroccan or muslims in USA or UK, i want to have an point of view of there persons. In tv, we have an good picture of the life in this place.
i want to know, the social, and economical situations, and life's quality.
ps: sorry for my english i speak it little beat.
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[b][center]Si perçante soit la vue, on ne se voit jamais de dos[/center][/b][b]Boycottez pour la paix !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[color=#FF0000]Boycottez!!!!!!!!![/color][color=#FFFFFF]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
[color=#009900]Boycottez pour les enfants de Gaza!!!!!![/color][/b]
What's going on brother? I don't live in Amerika, but I had the opportunity to go there during 3 months and I can say U, that muslims are better accepted there than us in france.. Indeed, there are many halal restaurants, the publication of a Muslim newspaper, the veiled women are not transparent. Really, I don't like Amerika but but I have a lot of respect towards their tolerance.
Concerning the morroccan community, it's small! Sincerly during all my travel I met only one morroccan..
Thanks, yes ihave this idea, because in tv, we look, that since september 11, muslim have difficulties to live their islam, but i can't believe that it's the same situation in around USA. So yes, i known, that the UK people have an best tolerance face to muslims and arabic . In France i think that it an problem of mentalities
[hr]
[b][center]Si perçante soit la vue, on ne se voit jamais de dos[/center][/b][b]Boycottez pour la paix !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[color=#FF0000]Boycottez!!!!!!!!![/color][color=#FFFFFF]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
[color=#009900]Boycottez pour les enfants de Gaza!!!!!![/color][/b]
I think the British must be the most tolerant of all. After all, they tolerate everything! Unlike the French, who stand up for their rights in everything and don't let their Government get away with unpopular decisions. I am sure intolerance must exist in the UK, but personally neither I nor my family have experienced this. They work so hard and such long hours that possibly they are too tired out at the end of the day to even think about taking any action against unpopular measures, such as being forced to pay the highest petrol prices in the World, when they are in fact an oil-producing country. If you are thinking about going to live in the UK, be prepared to work long hours!
Although i am iatlian and mot muslimah, i have lived 6 years in London and i agree they are the most tolerant.
Having entered and worked in the US 5 times, and having myself a darker skin and hair i've noticed that they accept immigrants just for the sake of making them do the lowest jobs...
Personally i dont like the typical US mentality and would never ever live there, even if offered a great job.
AND by not being muslimah i heard the average american having terrible opinions on middle east, north africans persons, muslims or not. Not talking about the latinos immigrants.
As i stated in other posts i think our old Europe is still a good place to live, although right now we are living a sort of crysis due to the entrance of Euro that has indeed caused economics troubles i miss terribly the old italian lira!!!!
The situation of Muslims and Arabs in The U.S is by no means an exception to what it is and used be in Europe! After 9/11, the majority looked down up on everything that's Islamic, Arab. Afghani...Morocan, too.. but the tensions died down and the Hatered of extremist/ conservative christians of the Southern States towards Islam and muslims in general is based up on a phenomenal Ignorance of what the religion is and what the Faith of Muslims is all about. The majority of Americans have been somewhat educated about Islam and The middle East because of what's happening in the LAnd of SHAM!
The good news, if we may call it so, is that BAd news is the trigger of tensions towards a certain race, ethnicity, country...but this tension is Usually ephemeral: It fades away giving room to other sorts of tensions and "hatred" towards other ppl who happen to be a la une everyday. The media shapes the thinking of the people in this country in a way that is magical! Once the story becomes old, a new scoop comes in and all the networks digg in till the exhaust the topic and you can imagine that the all the gossip among the intellectually idle american is about what the local or national news! there's no time to inquire and ask for clarification, hence there's onl;y room for taking what's presented on the chattering box as True, Final and what's Next!
Moroccans have been targeted ever since 9/11 because some trouble makers happend to be of Moroccan dessent and it was amazing how they kept coming..ending up with Moussaoui, who is French but Moroccan as well. The situation as it is now, is less than it was because you don'y hear about another case relate to Morocco; therefore Moroccans are back to being "normally" treated groups...Taking into account that in this country, you take care of your own business, you get along well with ppl. If you want to make friends, then forget it, because friendship is very shallow...you enjoy the moment and then once it's over, it's like nothing has happend. It's not an anti- any race thing...it's the American way! THis is sort of a generalisation, but I lived it and haven't seen anything that's out of this ordinary.
So, The Moroccan theme is back in culinary art, Fashion... So is the French theme, as well...And let's remember not long ago, there were stickers all over calling for " Boycot France" and everything that's French...the feeling is still out there, but not with the same intensity it used to be when France, Devillier!! was in the UN counter attacking every U.S move regarding IRAQ.
Old Europe has great advantages, but so does The U.S. It just seems to me that there's more effort required to survive, than it is in Europe. Sometalked about long hours in the UK...The majority are doing nothing but that in the States and they are barely on their feet. Vacations are counted by the days and not by weeks or months! I need a vacation! Sorry, too lazy to Edit!
[hr]
[b][center]Si perçante soit la vue, on ne se voit jamais de dos[/center][/b][b]Boycottez pour la paix !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
[color=#FF0000]Boycottez!!!!!!!!![/color][color=#FFFFFF]!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!![/color]
[color=#009900]Boycottez pour les enfants de Gaza!!!!!![/color][/b]
The question about the situation of Moroccans in the US is very relative. I personally do not see the Moroccan's community in the US as humbled or by no means as maltreated. In fact, Americans are very understandable when it comes to such personal issues as religion or beliefs. I've seen women in Veils, Men in Black Turbans walking down the strips, freely and not at stake of any negative association by people.
The relativity of the question now lies in the fact of wether or not, you risk to be avoided because of you religion or your Moroccan identity. Meaning, will people feel comfortable around you, will employer's give you a chance to proove yourself or will judge on some presumable qualities that the Muslim community have become known for. The media has done a great job in jeoprodizing the image of Musulims.
The challenge is to overcome the damage that the media created, we deal with diffrent people on a daily basis, they all come from different ethnic religions, they all have different beliefs but everybody shares one when you talk to them, which indeed is the less than acqaintance with Islam and Islamic teachings, the values and how peaceful this religion is.
me i arrive in Glasgow (scotland) 2 month ago, I can tell you I have no problem, I can put the scraf at school, and in my college we have a room for the prayer during ramadan
But for the media it's like france, they don't give a good image of us
And I speak with muslim, the like that Chirac do for us, for exemple in Pakistan with the earthquake, the help of franceis better than the help of bush or blair (he said me)
It's very good that you are settling in to the UK and your college. I wish you luck. I hope the weather doesn't get too bad for you in the Winter! Regarding whoever told you that the UK and the USA gives less in aid than France - that is simply not true.
I agree with Adoula. Living in USA is a privilege for all kinds of immigrants. But of course , there is always someone complaining , maybe those individuals should remain in their native Country. The american Government gives all the same opportunity , and they can do what they please with it...Life is what you make of it....But never think you will find a better life than in US, given that you are an honest person and willing to work, the job choice is yours, but please don't bite the hand that feeds you... You can not have it all: money , freedom and opportunities ...and also whatever you left in your original Country. You must make a choice and most of all.. >>>>>>>BE GRATEFUL>>>>>>Gabri
Gabri i must reply to your last words.... excuse mu but "be grateful" for what or to who?
I mean immigrants are accepted in this or that country coz they bring money, under the form of working, paying taxes, following all sort of imposition that the guesting country has, so i dont think nobody should be grateful to anybody.
The different case is: if you go to a country and they find you for free a decent flat, give you medical assistance for free (well in our Italy this is the case), giving you help if in need of money ecc ecc.
So this is obviously a dream, but in this case i would definitely be grateful. Only under these circumstances.
gabri a ìcrit: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree with Adoula. Living in USA is a > privilege for all kinds of immigrants. > But of course , there is always someone > complaining , maybe those individuals should > remain in their native Country. The american > Government gives all the same opportunity , and > they can do what they please with it...Life is > what you make of it....But never think you will > find a better life than in US, given that you > are an honest person and willing to work, the job > choice is yours, but please don't bite the hand > that feeds you... > You can not have it all: money , freedom and > opportunities ...and also whatever you left in > your original Country. You must make a choice and > most of all.. > >>>>>>>BE > GRATEFUL>>>>>>Gabri
I am so sorry to tell u .. where i am, no body feeds me..i feed my selv. if i dont go to work i will starve. You just missunderstood the word immigrant. it doesn´t mean to be slave.. cause what you were explaining is slavery attitude witch I hate.. if you decide to move to another country because u looking for better life, but u are giving years from your life your sweet and participating on the grew of the country .. if all that doesn´t mean anything to you.. so u are immigring for the wrong raison ..
I am so sorry but your explainition of immegrant remainding me of the word used in USA "Oncle Tom" . is just happend to be i am to pround to suck up to anybody. what i get is what i sweet for i never ask for charity ..
aziz_dk
Ps. I hope i was not affending you. just my 2 cents
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2005 01:27 by aziz_dk.
Aziz no problem , I respect your opinion...However are you all aware of the scarsity of jobs in Italy and Germany and Spain...plus the situation is aggravated by all this flood of immigrants from North Africa who end up sleeping under bridges with no lodging...Yes there are still plenty of jobs here, according to your skills...if you have no education or skills, you can still pick lettuce or strawberries, nothing wrong with that.... ************************ And by the way I was talking on the phone with Mourad , a moroccan who lives and works in New York sice 6 years ago..He's a reastaurant manager and quite happy with his life. he had no trouble finding employement, he misses his family in casablanca but he visits every so often...So here's a happy ending story for you skepticals ..... And Georgina , I can't imagine a smart girl like you having such an inferiority complex given by the fact you are brunette with olive skin...Don't you think enough of yourself to rise above some people's ignorance?
gabri a ìcrit: ------------------------------------------------------- > Aziz no problem , I respect your > opinion...However are you all aware of the > scarsity of jobs in Italy and Germany and > Spain...plus the situation is aggravated by all > this flood of immigrants from North Africa who end > up sleeping under bridges with no lodging...Yes > there are still plenty of jobs here, according to > your skills...if you have no education or skills, > you can still pick lettuce or strawberries, > nothing wrong with that.... > ************************ > And by the way I was talking on the phone with > Mourad , a moroccan who lives and works in New > York sice 6 years ago..He's a reastaurant manager > and quite happy with his life. he had no trouble > finding employement, he misses his family in > casablanca but he visits every so often...So > here's a happy ending story for you skepticals > .....
Skeptikal about what??.. I never complain to you about my life, and i am very happy for Mourad and very Moroccan and foreigner who has found a better life in USA but it doesn´t means they have to feel inferior and be greatfull to USA. is there work and skills that bring them where they are. cause if the person is a full you take himto the moon he stayes full, geographie can´t change people. Yes there are so many immigrant crossing the mediteranien everyday the same thing is happning in mexico. but that is poverty, people wanna do anything to get a better life.
I just have hard time to understand, you work and live in USA .. you work and get paid for your work right ..!! you are not suppose to thanks you boss for giving you a job everytime you meet him or be greatfull he gave you the job. cause if you were not doing the job well you be out believe me !!!!!...
I know we are not suppose to see things the same way.. I just hope you be proud and fell that nobody is doing you a favour by giving you a job and life in USA.
Aziz, it seems some of you are running an anti-american propaganda. I realize USA is not popular right now, but what politicians do has nothing to do with everyday life here...We don't like the war either, we despise it...So many kids are dying along with innocent Iraqis...However the life struggle is the same, and I am sorry you feel I shouldn't be grateful...but I'm a positive person and I'm grateful to God for everything..Sorry it disturbs you....I have seen 2 sides of the coin...I was born and raised in Europe , I am very fond of it and its lifestyle and culture...but I also think USA has been very good to me , sure I get paid for what I do, but you are being unfair by saying some ethnic groups are marginalized...Not true , as you know the opportunity is there , remember there was ostilty against italians , no one would hire them at the beginning of the century...but progress has been made, so lets be optimistic .... So as you can see I cannot deal well with negativity and complainers.
IT's one thing to be grateful, but it's another to take dissent for ungratefulness. Let's make sure that constractive self-criticism- can be healthy, and that self--dillusion- can't!
I don't see the propaganda you're talking about. Criticism is a healthy act! And, I've read both Georgina, Aziz and others debating the situation of the maghreb and Europe with the same intensity they are talking about the states. So, let's not be too sensitive, unless you have a reason to be!
Yani, I'm a woman , so you could say : Ms Gabri ) I know criticism is healthy, no doubt about it...But why criticize something you know nothing about ? And who knows what the real reason is for all the hostility...I don't think I'm too sensitive , but as usual I'm trying to be fair, and I noticed the strong opponents to american lyfestyle and mentality , are the one who don't live here, or maybe have visited for short periods of time...Its not the same as being a permanent resident. I see the good side of everything, life is too short to be hateful and why not admit that some Governments have succeded and others have failed.... I'm not going to be too specific...but why are there 800.000 people a year applying for Visas, permits and greencards...You do the math.....
Ms Gabri; Thank you for the clarifaication and for being a good sport I agree with you, one shouldn't speculate and talk about things, in this case, a place about which they don't know anything, but it seems that's what the majority of those who have never left their states, maybe some you know, are doing. At Least Georgina and some other Moroccans have experienced the American life more or less better than the majority of americans who are being fed figments of pseudo truth(S) about the rest of the World, while staying in their own little cirle or Workplace, baseball park and TV-room; That's being fair which is relative after all. Don't you think? I do share your point about being positive; hence our debate about promoting consstractive/ educated debates rather than foolish smering and disrespect of other cultures.
Yani, next question is : why are americans blamed for being fed the non-truth ( as you seem to interpret it ) by the media or by the Government...? What can we do to be aware of these facts, other then read whatever is published and available for purchase..? If you have any suggestions of a website or pubblication which would help me to discover the "truth " I would be most grateful.Thanks in advance.
Diversify! Yabi is definitely not the place; it's an unreliable source of info, the type you're looking for anyway. It's merely a Forum where ppl who are bored, lonely..get to break the routine that's killing them. Another way is to get out and check things for yourself...might require more time and a bit of cultural courage but it's fun and worth it. hope I touched on your questions..cause I can't presume to know the answers. P.S: I am very careful when it comes to sweeping generalisations: didn't say Americans! Good day.
OK dear , you are very diplomatic and polite..2 qualities I admire very much.. I am already doing what you suggested, I don't consider Yabiladi a source of political info...however it is a site which I stumbled upon in my quest for great places I would like to visit : Morocco is one of them and I always found moroccans to be lovely people with similarities to italian culture . I do not post here 'cause I'm bored to death , at times I cannor resist giving my opinion if I like the subject ( surely by now I am not a popular member given that most people don't like to hear the truth )
gabri a ìcrit: -------------------------------------------------------
> I do not post here 'cause I'm bored to death , at > times I cannor resist giving my opinion if I like > the subject ( surely by now I am not a popular > member given that most people don't like to hear > the truth )
Hi Gabri..
I guess we are all guest in that forum, we read each other comment replay to them if we fell that conserne us.. but it doesn´t mean what you or I say is true/correct. cause when u sayed that you are unpopular cause you said the truth..common nobody have said negativ thing to you.. we discusse and there things we gonna get long with others we dont. i hope you dont take our comment personaly cause we are not here to put each other down.
Ok Aziz, thanks for the feedback. I take these Posts at face value, don't worry its not worth getting upset by comments made by people who only "think " they know it all, but are probably sitting at a desk with nothing to do all day but write long lenthy posts about nonsense...Have a peaceful day....Gabri
I beg to disagree but the immigration policy in the US is quite different from the French or European one. Youjust have to watch an american channel talking about the crisis in France, they always say "French citizens from north african origin", that basically sums it up. In the US, they do not try to make you eat their food, go to their church or have a narrowed vision of life like they would like you to have. They have a strong constitution that generated laws to protect citizens and that is very flexible due to their history as an immigrant country and the struggles they lived (slavery, etc..) that makes it very easy for all immigrants to keep their culture, religion, and at the same time feel totally american. In the US, they see immigrants as a chance, as new people that will teach them something they don't know, that mixing people is good and that it provide strength. It is completely different in Europe. The problem in Europe is that youhave to fit a certain culture and way of life to be french or german, and if you don't you are not welcome, even if you were born there and your parents were born there. It is sad but it's true.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/11/2005 08:51 by zaki7.
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