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the new trend?
10/12/2006 06:08  
Ilhem2 [ PM ]
12, 2006 06:08
Hi,



I’ve been last time in many cities in morocco and I realised that more and more women are wearing the scarf ….all ages… even kids ….some of them in a traditional look but a lot of them in quite modern and colorful one…I’m wondering if this is the result of the new changes or a reaction against it ? are we afraid ? of what?
10/12/2006 09:57  
It is a sign of recognition
Of social class I think
10/13/2006 12:07  
Ilhem2 [ PM ]
13, 2006 12:07
salam,

isn't surprising that with the modernation more than half of the girls wear the head scarf ?!....that doesn't mean wearing the scarf is oldfashioned but it wasn't like this before when the country was still very traditionel!....strange changes in our society!....
10/13/2006 03:14  
13, 2006 03:14
10/14/2006 02:14  
aziz_dk [ PM ]
14, 2006 02:14
Hi

The new generation wears scarf for different reason.

1- those who wear it to get married, if someone fall for it.
2- some just to avoid men will let them free, as you se in Morocco specialy casablanca is very difficult for a girl to walk around with our beeing followed or desturbed by someone. is very sad u can be with a female family member and still someone try to hit on her.

3- for religion matter.
4- some wear it to attract Golf people, actualy that attract those low life priks from golf. that way you see lot of girls in club with khaligi clothing and in cafe on a day, hijab and transparent 3ibaya and make up..

any way allah yaster.



Aziz_dk
10/14/2006 04:53  
14, 2006 04:53
Ilhem, why shall we be afraid of such trend? I think it is a positive step towards applying the requirements of Shari'aa. The head scarf in islam, according to Allah swt, is compulsory for each muslim woman. Allah swt made such wordly law to protect women from transgression and misguidance. When you walk in the street wearing the veil the number of harrassment and hassling decrease. Beauty is in the head covering not outside it.

Wa Salam
10/14/2006 09:10  
14, 2006 09:10
Quote

almond01

Ilhem, why shall we be afraid of such trend? I think it is a positive step towards applying the requirements of Shari'aa.


You're kidding right ? You want us to become a theocracy ? Cut people's hands, public executions, public whippings ?
With all due respect, dream on !!
10/14/2006 09:51  
14, 2006 09:51
Quote
chelhman
Quote

almond01

Ilhem, why shall we be afraid of such trend? I think it is a positive step towards applying the requirements of Shari'aa.


You're kidding right ? You want us to become a theocracy ? Cut people's hands, public executions, public whippings ?
With all due respect, dream on !!

Salam Aalikom


At first, i dont kid when it comes to discussing such sensitive subjects. Before head-covering came to be a personal-choice, God so directed in the Glorious Quran. It is not me who said such a thing, but Allah swt. Then if you object women to wear the Hijab this means you object God's decree. Just to be clear, i dont agree with hands cutting and severe public punishements though the Quran is very clear about that. You know brother that the laws of Shari'aa and Sunaa is an extension of the Quran, so what is said in the two former books cant be excluded. If we agree on this, then you should agree on the Hijab case.

Wasalam
10/14/2006 11:01  
14, 2006 11:01
almond01,

It is still subject to debate whether or not the hijab is compulsory, the jury is still out.
And Yes, I object to Moroccan women being subjected and having to bow to eastern conservatism. Our women have never wore that piece of cloth until very recently.
For the record, I also object to the chariaa being applied, it's outdated, it's not of this time, it has no place in a country like ours.

We're moving towards a democratic state where the law of men not divine law applies, not doing so would be going counterclockwise historically speaking.
Religion is a private matter, you can have your faith and not impose it on others, the chariaa does not allow that.

Give me one country where applying the chariaa has created a stable, harmonious, developped nation ?
I can't find any.
Muslims should start looking forward not looking in the rearview mirror and lamenting about great we were. It's insane and it is why we're limping where the west is sprinting.
The hijab is just a symptom of that mentality.
10/15/2006 01:05  
15, 2006 01:05
10/15/2006 02:20  
15, 2006 02:20
almond01,

Nope, sorry, the veil has been worn throughout the cities only since the beginning of the 90's, I can guarantee you that at least for Casablanca that I know very well. As I said earlier, older women wore enngab, in rural areas women wore a 7aïk ou addal.
The hijab as we see it now, is not a moroccan tradition, it is indeed an import due to the influence of satellite channels polluting our culture.

As for the rest, we are so much opposed that we'll agree to disagree, I believe in more than just religion as a source of knowledge, you seem to draw everything from the Quran, I don't.
Religion is a matter of faith, knowledge is a matter of science, so you see that we'll never agree.
10/15/2006 06:05  
Krim [ PM ]
15, 2006 06:05
Dear Chelhman
The complexity of the world makes people hate freedom and particularly the freedom of thinking.
In trying to understand the meaning of life, idividuals need to work hard through education, reading, thinking reading.....dicussing in an open and free way. Each individual should educate himself and find the tools and the loops to analyse and understand his environment etc...These continuous processes of learning and educating ourselfs are very hard but make us work hard through the whole life. You may make great finding and leave this khowledge to your kids and the generation to come. The transmission of khowledge and curiosity to the next generation is at the heart of each progress.
From the 8 to the 14th century Islam was growing as new religion, during this period many or most of the ideas were open to discussion. The message of mohammed during this period was still open to discussions involving muslims , jews christians etc.... a lot of intellecual efforts leading to progress not only in theology but in sciences etc..... Ibn Rushd did not succeed in imposing the freedom of thought. This school which was tolerant and see every khowledge as dynamical. Even the notion of god was open to discussion. Belief and logic...etc.....So this glorious period which many muslims refer to was a period where people were free to think and discuss every thing. Coran which was not written in real time but lately collected by many individuals (mostly men, women were out of business) was still a matter of debate. The Khalifates who saw a danger in following the school of free thought, decided to stop the ongoing brain storming of Ibn Rushd and his followers (Luther of Islam) and decided for the malekite school. The truth is in Coran, Basta.....Actually many muslims love this simple solution and hate freedom of thinking and freedom simply. They love to be hostages since they can sleep by saying all the work has been already done. We are here to accomplish just our biological duties.. knowledge is static.....
10/17/2006 12:48  
17, 2006 12:48
Hi Krim,

My knowledge of Ibn Rushd was rather superficial, after reading your post, I took time to thoroughly research his work. This man was amazing, he would be the equivalent of a Da Vinci for the Rennaissance, too bad he was shunned at the time.
This is the kind of thinking, we need now. Thanks for the info.
Didn't I say, I'm learning a lot on this forum...Smiling Smiley
10/17/2006 05:20  
eFaysal [ PM ]
17, 2006 05:20
"Morocco brother is an Islamic country from the ancient time "

you make me laugh. What does mean 14 centries. It's not a long period of time.
At the scale of history, 14 centries is just one second of time.

We are muslims because Islam have the power to give a higher quality of life.
People need to be in Islam to secure a way of living without stress and free from
material addiction.

Islam is a religion of mind and soul.

And we love all kind of human being without exception.


Peace and Love the true Islam.
10/17/2006 06:36  
17, 2006 06:36
Quote

eFaysal
And we love all kind of human being without exception.

Most muslims seem to have taken a day off when they taught this part of the dogma.Smiling Smiley
10/17/2006 08:11  
eFaysal [ PM ]
17, 2006 08:11
Dear Chelham,

thanks for your comment that needs some clarification.

We, you and I, have the responsibility now to be more pragmatic and clear in our actions.
We need the real Islam, peacefull Islam, the Islam that have the power to convince by legal way.


Never forget that we have the best heritage, and we have to respect that heritage:

We have invented the human civilization, we have invented the spirit of the scientific method.

We have invented 0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. The most vital ingredient for this High Tech Civilization.

Let's return to our values, respect and work hard for the prosperity of human being ... Medicine is based on Islamic reseach that have been conducted at the early stage of his history ...

Islam is for everybody, any free human can be a muslim, and he will be free and have right to do it accordingly to his beleive.

We dont need a kind of Islam that belong to some people that decide a kind of way to be a muslim.

Welcome to all human being. Peace and Love. Salam wa Almawadda wa Rahmma.
10/17/2006 09:01  
zaki7 [ PM ]
17, 2006 09:01
What's unfortunate is that he still is shunned. Ibn Rushd and his work should be taught in high schools all over Morocco. This will not only help our kids to have a critical thinking but also reminds them of their history. Someday may be...

Quote
chelhman
Hi Krim,

My knowledge of Ibn Rushd was rather superficial, after reading your post, I took time to thoroughly research his work. This man was amazing, he would be the equivalent of a Da Vinci for the Rennaissance, too bad he was shunned at the time.
This is the kind of thinking, we need now. Thanks for the info.
Didn't I say, I'm learning a lot on this forum...Smiling Smiley
10/17/2006 10:11  
17, 2006 10:11
Salam,

I think that it's an evolution of habvits influenced by the globalization process. I also think that de main influence came from the satelites tv's.




Si perçante soit la vue, on ne se voit jamais de dos


Boycottez pour la paix !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Boycottez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Boycottez pour les enfants de Gaza!!!!!!
10/17/2006 10:36  
aziz_dk [ PM ]
17, 2006 10:36
Quote
Krim
Ibn Rushd did not succeed in imposing the freedom of thought. This school which was tolerant and see every khowledge as dynamical. Even the notion of god was open to discussion. Belief and logic...etc.....So this glorious period which many muslims refer to was a period where people were free to think and discuss every thing. Coran which was not written in real time but lately collected by many individuals (mostly men, women were out of business) was still a matter of debate. The Khalifates who saw a danger in following the school of free thought, decided to stop the ongoing brain storming of Ibn Rushd and his followers (Luther of Islam) and decided for the malekite school. The truth is in Coran, Basta.....Actually many muslims love this simple solution and hate freedom of thinking and freedom simply. They love to be hostages since they can sleep by saying all the work has been already done. We are here to accomplish just our biological duties.. knowledge is static.....

HI krim
Ibn rushed was in andalous when the islamic world was gouverne by Khalifa rashidyin. at this time Coran was already written.

Ibn rushd did base his study on Coran, Cause he knew everything about "Ossoul edine".
at this time lot of, madahib comes out. so it was very important for the khalifa to stop that and to make them know that all the answer is in Coran. "AND IT´S TRUE"

for chelhman:

to be educated, scientict..ETC and believe in what ever you want, but if you dont believe in Allah and his profete SWS you just wasting your time studing.

I do believe in science..but u will not always find you answers in science. sometime you have to return to Coran and take it the way it ´s written.

We should be happy to have something to return to, when real science can give os all the answers.

for Alhijab, islam said women should wear it, so wearing it pakastani, khaligi, soussi, doukali or rifi way they just have to cover there hair..that all..how!! it doesn´t matter.

from your writting i can see, u are more close to the west..so we will never agree.
we just have to respect each others point of view and believes.

3washer mabrouka to u all..

PS. Wearing scarf never been a step back, is a step forward. I admire any girl, women that wear it by believe.



Aziz_dk
10/17/2006 10:59  
17, 2006 10:59
Quote

aziz_dk

PS. Wearing scarf never been a step back, is a step forward. I admire any girl, women that wear it by believe.

Then you must be a very happy man these days...
10/17/2006 11:08  
aziz_dk [ PM ]
17, 2006 11:08
10/17/2006 11:34  
zaki7 [ PM ]
17, 2006 11:34
If the scarves were the mirror of somebody's good virtue and principles, Muslims would be the perfect human beings on earth. The issue is much deeper than the scarves, the issue has to do with practicing Islam in the light of modernity, it has nothing to do with the west in my opinion, flying a plane is not a "western" thing but a "modern" thing. Judaism and Christianity are older and more traditionalist religions with rules that are more rigid, much more than Islam but somehow, they found a way to conciliate between their religion and the century they live in. I believe Islam is living its dark period and will come out of it stronger exactly like Christianity lived through the crusades and the inquisition. It's a matter of a couple hundred years... Nothing shocking Smiling Smiley
10/18/2006 01:54  
18, 2006 01:54
Quote
eFaysal
"Morocco brother is an Islamic country from the ancient time "

you make me laugh. What does mean 14 centries. It's not a long period of time.
At the scale of history, 14 centries is just one second of time.

Am happy i made you laugh eventho i didnt say sth funny .. It is in the 14 centuries left that Islam has emerged that spread all over the world .. and thats what interests me most

We are muslims because Islam have the power to give a higher quality of life.
People need to be in Islam to secure a way of living without stress and free from
material addiction.

I thought you are aware of what you are writing down instead of filling up the lines. Where on earth have you read or heard about some1 not working-hard to earn his/her living? How could a breadwinner feed and support his/her family without stress? Even thiefs and shoplifters make an effort to live.

Islam is a religion of mind and soul.

And we love all kind of human being without exception.

I agree on this.

Peace and Love the true Islam.
10/18/2006 09:17  
Krim [ PM ]
18, 2006 09:17
Quote
aziz_dk
Quote
Krim
Ibn Rushd did not succeed in imposing the freedom of thought. This school which was tolerant and see every khowledge as dynamical. Even the notion of god was open to discussion. Belief and logic...etc.....So this glorious period which many muslims refer to was a period where people were free to think and discuss every thing. Coran which was not written in real time but lately collected by many individuals (mostly men, women were out of business) was still a matter of debate. The Khalifates who saw a danger in following the school of free thought, decided to stop the ongoing brain storming of Ibn Rushd and his followers (Luther of Islam) and decided for the malekite school. The truth is in Coran, Basta.....Actually many muslims love this simple solution and hate freedom of thinking and freedom simply. They love to be hostages since they can sleep by saying all the work has been already done. We are here to accomplish just our biological duties.. knowledge is static.....

HI krim
Ibn rushed was in andalous when the islamic world was gouverne by Khalifa rashidyin. at this time Coran was already written.

Dear Aziz
I think you misunderstand my message. Coran was not written in real time. This means written while the prophete mohammed still in life. The writing and collection was done after his death by his followers. Read the "history of the arab people by Albert Hourani". Should we trust that this work reflect the authentic message of the prophete. In addition Ibn Rushd who was a strong believer in the message of Mohammed did try to use greek philosophy, rationality in order to find a commun ground. He was a smart muslim who made use of his brain by asking critical questions.
take care
10/18/2006 02:46  
Ilhem2 [ PM ]
18, 2006 02:46
10/18/2006 04:00  
eFaysal [ PM ]
18, 2006 04:00
Brother almond01,

thanks for your replay, I appreciate your way of reviewing a writing.


For the used word "stress", it's not related to "fatigue".

A work is not only physically demanding but stressful too.

Great worry caused by a difficult situation, or something which causes this condition:
People under a lot of stress may experience headaches, MAJOR pains and sleeping difficulties.

Islam, as a religion of peace of mind and soul, is a very effective for combating stress.


Islam is a mercy. Islam is a love. Islam is a peace.
10/19/2006 05:19  
19, 2006 05:19
10/19/2006 09:07  
Krim [ PM ]
19, 2006 09:07
Is Almot still around ???


Dear Almot,

I’ve read all your messages and with all respect I agree with most what chelhmen said …..we really need to be careful this time to get our country out of the misery …the religion is good but it’s still should not be mixed with the state and the economy ….I’m not saying we should forget our religion and traditions ….what I’m saying is we need to make the difference ……matters such as education, health , employment ….etc should be our first priority….the religion should remain a private thing like in all civilized countries as long as it's still respected in all aspects of the society….I understand your proud of our religion but we always were so ….. sadly it didn’t help to improve the situation …..we need to solve effectively our economical and social problems….each time a matter is discussed it turn up discussing the religion….. we will never move on…… the real Islam is in the heart, the behavior and the attention not in the way how people look…..[/quote]
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