Il se peut que c'est leur autre moyen de montrer leurs soutiens aux homosexuels decapites .
Le message suivant, rédigé par la Coalition de Genève contre l’exécution des homosexuels en Arabie Saoudite, a été lu en arabe et en français :
Le premier jour de cette année, les autorités d’Arabie Saoudite, en un nouvel acte tragique de répression des homosexuels, ont annoncé l’exécution de trois de leurs citoyens : Ali Ben Saad, Mohammed Ben Mohammed et Mohammed Ben Abdallah. Ils ont été exécutés à cause de leur orientation sexuelle, simplement parce qu’ils étaient gais.
La coalition, basée à Genève, contre l’exécution des homosexuels en Arabie Saoudite, rassemble des associations gaies locales, nationales et internationales : ces associations, représentant les communautés LGBT vivant en Suisse ou dans le monde arabe, condamnent de tels actes de barbarie et appellent à l’abolition immédiate de ces pratiques inhumaines et cruelles. La criminalisation de l’homosexualité et l’application de la peine de mort, non seulement violent les droits humains fondamentaux et les normes internationales, mais constituent une atteinte grave contre chacune et chacun d’entre nous et contre le droit à une vie libre - indépendamment de sa race, de sa couleur, de son orientation sexuelle ou de ses croyances religieuses.
La coalition de Genève contre l’exécution des homosexuels en Arabie Saoudite est convaincue qu’afin de combattre cette violation des droits humains, la lutte doit être menée non seulement par les militants gais arabes, mais aussi par toutes et tous, lesbiennes, gais, bi et trans, comme par tous les défenseurs des droits humains, qui ne sont pas eux-mêmes les victimes de l’hostilité de leur société ou de leur gouvernement. Soyons tous unis contre ces crimes et montrons notre solidarité avec nos frères et nos soeurs d’Arabie Saoudite. C’est le seul chemin pour un vrai changement. C’est le seul moyen d’empêcher de nouveaux meurtres en Arabie Saoudite comme dans d’autres parties du monde.
L'Arabie Saoudite, déjà si elle condamne, les homo et toute la population gais, c'est parce qu'elle est régis sous la lois coranique. Je te donne certain verset et l'histoire de Loth.
1- l’histoire de Loth : Tous les versets coraniques et les hadiths du prophète qui évoquent des pratiques homosexuelles, le font en référence avec l’histoire de Loth. Quelle est cette histoire? Elle appartient à la révélation coranique, comme d’ailleurs à la révélation biblique, et y est racontée: Loth est le neveu d’Abraham et habite la ville de Sodome, près de la mer morte. Cette ville, comme celle de Gomorrhe, seraient alors pourries par la perversité et Dieu a annoncé à Abraham qu’il allait y envoyer deux messagers pour évaluer la situation. Deux anges se rendent à Sodome, et Loth les accueille et leur offre l’hospitalité. Mais voilà que les hommes de Sodome arrivent, encerclent la maison et manifestent le désir de les violer. Loth essaye de négocier avec les pervers et va jusqu’à leur offrir ses deux filles belles comme la lune. Les habitants de Sodome disent à Loth qu’ils préfèrent de loin les hommes. Les anges font appel à la puissance de Dieu qui rend les agresseurs aveugles. Puis ils invitent Loth à fuir avec sa famille pour être protégés du châtiment divin. Dieu avait décidé de punir la ville en l’anéantissant. De la lecture de ce récit raconté dans la bible et dans le Coran, peut-on dire que le peuple de Sodome a été puni à cause de l’homosexualité? Même si l’interprétation des sourates et des hadiths faisant référence à cette histoire sont catégoriques sur une condamnation absolue de l’homosexualité cette même interprétation reste t-elle définitive? Dieu n’a t-il pas puni le peuple de Loth parce qu’il a manqué de respect aux invités en enfreignant l’une des lois les plus sacrées : l’hospitalité. Les citations coraniques portant sur la condamnation de l’homosexualité : Sourate VII (l’enceinte du paradis) versets 80-81: " Souvenez-vous de Loth! Il dit à son peuple : vous livrez-vous à cette abomination que nul, parmi les mondes, n’a commise avant vous? Vous vous approchez des hommes de préférences aux femmes pour assouvir vous passions. Vous êtes un peuple pervers ". Sourate XXI ( les prophètes) verset 74: " Et Loth, nous lui donnâmes sagesse, jugement et savoir, et nous le sauvâmes de la cité qui pratiquait le vice. C’étaient des gens de mal et des dévergondés ". Sourate XXVI (les poètes)verset 165: " Vous approchez-vous des mâles de l’univers et délaisserez-vous vos épouses, créées pour vous par le Seigneur? Vous êtes un peuple transgresseur ". Les hadiths qui condamnent l’homosexualité " Dieu ne regarde pas celui qui pénètre un homme ou une femme par derrière " " Ceux qui pratiquent le péché du peuple de Loth, lapidez l’actif et le passif, lapidez-les tous les deux ". " Si vous trouvez deux hommes pratiquer le vice du peuple de Loth, maudissez les ". Dès les débuts de l’Islam et dès l’établissement de sociétés régies par les lois musulmanes, l’homosexualité a été sévèrement condamnée et réprimée. Cependant, toutes les écoles juridiques (les quatre écoles sunnites et l’école chiite) n’auront pas la même sévérité, et toutes ne choisiront pas la peine de mort pour les sodomites. Ce qui est frappant, lorsqu’on observe l’histoire des sociétés musulmanes (aussi bien les sociétés arabes, perses ou turques) c’est de constater que l’homosexualité y est présente en permanence, constituant une immense tentation. Des califes vont la condamner durement tandis que d’autres vont la vivre ouvertement. Elle est aujourd’hui condamnée fortement par les lois mais aussi par le jugement populaire dans toutes les sociétés musulmanes. Et cependant les pays musulmans sont ceux où il y a un des plus importants phénomène de pratiques homosexuelles. De fait en organisant la séparation rigoureuse entres les sexes, l’Islam a engendré d’énormes frustrations sexuelles, et il a suscité des cultures " homosensuelles ", où les hommes ont entre eux des gestes et des sentiments qui sont proches de l’homosexualité et peuvent y aboutir. Toute une partie de la tradition soufie s’est trouvée héritière du rapport maître-disciple qu’entretenait, y compris dans ses dimensions " pédérastiques ", la culture de la Grèce antique. Certains soufis (le turc du 13è siècle Yunus Emre) ont cultivé un langage ambigu en comparant leur amour pour Dieu appelé " l’Ami " à des amours très homophiles. L’homosexualité a ainsi fait partie de l’histoire du soufisme. (A chaque fois que l’Islam, Coran ou Hadith, condamne l’homosexualité c’est aux pratiques du peuple de Loth qu’il se prend. Nous avons l’impression que l’Islam dénonce la sodomie, allusion au peuple de Sodome, la pénétration dans le derrière, parce que l’Islam condamne la pénétration d’une femme par derrière. Je reste clair sur le faite que les théologiens musulmans condamnent l’homosexualité dans sa globalité. Et là, ces savants en religion se basent sur des textes très ambigus. L’homosexualité est une chose allant contre nature, donc elle est condamnable...
Bismileh88 pour , merci d'avoir repondu avec ce chapitre , mais je dois l'avouer . Franchement je ne connais pas trop des religions , je ne suis pas pratiquant et je ne sais plus qui croire ni quoi croire . Je suis totalement confus , malgre que je suis musulman de naissance .
Je suis tres soucieux depuis que je suis tombe sur certains forums comme celui la , qui parle de la vie et le comportement du Prophet . Je ne sais pas si cela est vrai ou seulement pour salir le nom du prophet et la religion musulmane . Je sais que certains sur ce forum vont me maudire pour ce posting , mais c'est la verite et en plus c'est dans plusieurs forums . Tu me donnes l'impression que tu maitrises les religions et Je te demande de me confirmer si il y a de la verite de ce qui est dit du prophet . Cordialement .
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64: Sahih Bukhari Aisha: that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
The intervals between prayers are used for quick stands "I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it."
From Khomeini's book, "Tahrirolvasyleh", fourth volume, Darol Elm, Gom, Iran, 1990 : A man can have sexual pleasure from a child as young as a baby. However he should not penetrate, sodomising the child is OK. If the man penetrates and damages the child then he should be responsible for her subsistence all her life. This girl, however does not count as one of his four permanent wives. The man will not be eligible to marry the girls sister. [...] It is better for a girl to marry in such a time when she would begin menstruation at her husband's house rather than her father's home. Any father marrying his daughter so young will have a permanent place in heaven. How it all began ( a long time ago in the isolated deserts of Arabia) : Already, when Aisha (the daughter of Abu Bakr, Mohammad's closest friend and unquestioning ally) was about 4-5 years old Muhammad started dreaming of a union with her [Ref: SAHIH BUKHARI, 5:235] and he wasted no time in realizing his dreams, inspite of the fact that object of his dreams was a mere child.Perhaps you want to assume that it is "normal" for a 50+ year old man to dream of marrying a 4-5 old child, and then ACTUALLY ask for her hand at 6?
Is it normal for an oversexed old man (Muhammad had over 9 wives and concubines) to dream of a union with a 4-5 year old girl?
Muhammad ( SAW ) was basically oversexed, his sexual relationship with Aisha is a special case, which fits his strong need for a larger latitude to satisfy his sexual urge, as is witnessed by:
"The Prophet used to visit all his wives in a round, during the day and night and they were eleven in number." I asked Anas, "Had the Prophet the strength for it?" Anas replied, "We used to say that the Prophet was given the strength of thirty (men)." And Sa'id said on the authority of Qatada that Anas had told him about nine wives only (not eleven)." [Bukhari.1:268]
When she was 6, Muhammad asked Abu Bakr, Aisha's father, for her hand. Abu Bakr thought it was improper, because, as he said "I am your brother"; Muhammad brushed aside Abu Bakr's reservation by saying that it was perfectly lawful for him to marry Aisha [ Ref: SAHIH BUKHAR I7:18].
What happened to " there is no compulsion in matters of religion ?" Anyway what compulsion did Muhhammad need being a prophet his word was law, he restricted men to only four wives when he himself had more than four, that was a convenient exemption for Muhhammad.
So, Aisha was betrothed to Muhammad, and 3 years later, i.e. when Aisha was 9, the marriage was consumed. And Muhammad was 53 then [SAHIH BUKHARI 1991:236,7:64,7:65,7:88] .
The 3 year waiting period probably had to do with the fact that at that time Aisha had contracted some disease, whereby she, temporarily lost her hair. Aisha was then socially and psychologically still a child as is evidenced by the fact that she was still given to her toys, she was unaware of what was happening around her, and her playmates behave as would the children at present times [Sahih Bukhari 8:151,5:234].
Aisha became Muhammad's favourite wife. And the sexuality in the relationship was predominant [ SAHIH BUKHARI .1.270, 3:36, 7:6, 3:148, 3:149, 3:150, 7:142, IbnSa'd 1pg165 ]. Later, Aisha was to be called the "mother of believers". If you are wandering, yes, the relationship was pedophilic. When did the sexual relations between Prophet Mohammad and his child bride begin?
Unfortunately we do not have any video recordings of such events. Neither can we expect that there would be any explicit statements regarding this. In any case it is certain that she had NOT reached puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house, which in itself, contrary to the prevailing social norms, is a tacit implication that he may indulge in whatever fantasies he may have had when he asked for Aisha's hand. And Muhammad did have fantasies.
Volume 8, Book 73, Number 151: Narrated 'Aisha: I used to play with the dolls in the presence of the Prophet, and my girl friends also used to play with me. When Allah's Apostle used to enter (my dwelling place) they used to hide themselves, BUT the Prophet would call them to join and play with me. (The playing with the dolls and similar images is forbidden, but it was allowed for 'Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty.) (Fateh-al-Bari page 143, Vol.13)
It is, however, very unlikely that Muhammad would have waited for the onset of the menses; or at most it could have been just after the 1st drops. The evidence is necessarily indirect.
# His strong desire to "graze of the (tree) of which nothing has been eaten before", as his other wives had not been virgins.
# Menses or fasting do not reduce Muhammad's desire and potency for sex. His nightly rounds to his wives(lastly 12-13) did require more than average potency.
# New additions to his harem lead to intensive sexual activity, e.g. arrival of Maria lead to increased, initial spurt of sexual activity to the neglect of others .
# The intervals between prayers are used for quick stands "I used to wash the traces of Janaba (semen) from the clothes of the Prophet and he used to go for prayers while traces of water were still on it."
# Other wives try to please Muhammad by sacrificing their turns in favor of Aisha.
# During his last fatal illness he cries: "Where will I be tomorrow? Where will I be tomorrow?", seeking Aisha's turn.
Prophet Say: Marry Young Virgins Volume 7, Book 62, Number 17: Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah: When I got married, Allah's Apostle said to me, "What type of lady have you married?" I replied, "I have married a matron' He said, "Why, don't you have a liking for the young virgins and for fondling them?" Jabir also said: Allah's Apostle said, "Why didn't you marry a young girl so that you might play with her and she with you?'
Silent Children : Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67: Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."
Where sex is akin to a crime, silence is admission of your guilt. What a corruption of "fitrah" ( human nature).
What religion condones the destruction of childhood? What are we who daily avow our undying love for Allah to do against a system that ruthlessly oppresses its youngest and brightest ?
What was Aisha's age? I have heard other figures ... (A question also known as: How many of your own sources will you deny ? ) All the relevant sources (Bukhari, Ibn Hisham, Tabari, Ibn al-Athir, Ibn Sa'd, Ibn Hanbal, etc.) maintain that Aisha was bethroted to Mohammed when she was 6, and the marraige was consummated 3 years later.
'Mahommad - The Word of Allah' written by Anne-Marie Delcambre. (Anne-Marie Delcambre has a doctorate in 'Islamology', and taught Islamic Civilisation at the Saint Joseph University of Beyrouth in Lebanon). On page 69, it says that he was married to her when she was 9 years old.
Dates commonly accepted by scholars: Birth Muhammad(570), birth Aisha(614 or 1992). Bethrothal(620 or 621), Consummation of marriage(623 or 624). In particular the "consummation" of marriage is said to have taken place after the hidjra in Shawwal 1 or 2. Between 621 and 623 Asiha is said to have contracted a disease whereby she temporarily lost her hair. (Ref 1)
She could not have been more than 10 years when she went to live in Muhammad's house. The fact that she took her toys with her to her new home indicates that she was psychologically and socially still a child. And the fact that she was allowed to play with DOLLS indicates that she had NOT reached puberty by this time. ("The playing with the dolls and similar images was(is) forbidden, but it was allowed for Aisha at that time, as she was a little girl, not yet reached the age of puberty."Fateh-al- Bari page 143, Vol.13). Besides, there is also Aisha's own statement which implies that she had NOT reached puberty when she moved into Muhammad's house[Sahih Bukhari 7.163]. I am sure she would have been able to recount accurately as to when and where she got her first menses. Most girls do remember such events rather accurately. (Refs 2)
What is "sick" is that Muhammad had started to dream of a union with Aisha already when she was 4-5 years old: "You were shown to me twice (in my dream) before I married you...(and) I said (to myself), 'If this is from Allah, then it must happen." He was to use a similar tactic when he wanted to marry his step son's wife. A tactic which Aisha later came to understand as fraud, as in: "Aisha said: O Allah's Apostle! I do not see, but, that your Lord hurries in pleasing you." (Refs 2)
Muhammad wasted no time in realizing what he had been dreaming. Already when Aisha was 6 "The Prophet asked Abu Bakr for 'Aisha's hand in marriage. Abu Bakr said "But I am your brother." The Prophet said, "You are my brother in Allah's religion and His Book, but she (Aisha) is lawful for me to marry." Here it does not seem that Abu Bakr consented to the marriage wholeheartedly.
Sidna 2issa (Jesus ) said : Let he who is without sin cast the first stone .
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