The tube is stoped and the buses are brought to a stand still in central london. the mobole network is not working due to the amount of calls being made.
The paranouia has already begun in the media over here.
I just keep on praying that things dont get too difficlt for the Muslims. We have just had a few months where the tention fulled by the Iraq war calmed down, now it seems that it will go back back to square one.
Many were expecting this, it was just a matter of time. Both parties (blair, Bush on one side) and Ben Laden (on the other side) are killing innocent people.
Arabi77 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yes I totaly agree with you. > What happened today is an immediate consequence of > the Iraq war. > >
Correction - what happened today is an immediate consequence of Britain allowing people full of hatred like you the freedom to enjoy your life in London. If I were one of the authorities involved in the enquiry into these atrocities, you would be one of the first on my list to investigate.
I think this is a time to denounce this kind of crime and not hesitate in doing so. Yes we can denounce the war if we want to, and we all did previously, many are dead and many innocent Muslims in England are going to be a target of hate groups now, I feel for them all and their families and I also feel for the families of innocent victims.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2005 04:05 by almotanabi.
It is about time that people started thinking. What does it say in the Quran - killing is haram unless in a war in self defence (with specific criteria) or if they are a murderer and have been judged in a court of law. So you would think that if you were an 'Islamist extremist' you would BOTHER TO READ THE QURAN!!!!! If someone takes the religion so seriously that they are willing to kill people in the name of that religion you would think they would at least bother educating themselves about a few FUNDAMENTALS of the religion. And while we're at it, what about devcent treatment of Christians and Jews as is also encouraged in the Quran.
And what I find disgusting is that not only do these people (whoever they may be) make decent MUSLIM peoples lives just about unbearable through the backlash they provoke, but very few Muslims have the gumption to say _ WELL ACTUALLY THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOUR IS WRONG!!!
We need to be very clear about this. What does it say in the Quran - don't kill. OK, so DON"T KILL!!!Simple. And if invading Iraq is clearly wrong, then so is this!
A war involves soldiers, not people going about their daily business. So - don't bomb civilians in Iraq and Palestine, and don't blow up tube stations, it doesn't help anyone. There are OTHER WAYS OF FIGHTING THAT ARE HALAL.
I think we MUSLIMS should stand up for our rights against whoever these people are who are creating a lie against ALLAH ta ala and our religion. And stop letting these bullies (on both sides) intimidate us.
This is a jihad, it's a jihad for the truth about ISLAM. Assalamu aleikum.
We have to be clear about this kind of violence and about the starting point. During the afghanistan war many arabs were recruited and trained for killing the russians. These arabs were recruited from all arab countries, from Morocco to yemen. During their stay in camps in Afghanistan they learned to build bombs, they learned to blow up them-self etc...The question: who was behind this training and who did start this chain reaction.........at the origin these are US and CIA made products and Bin Laden was an associate at that time. They made use of and cultivate the fanatism of this muslims against the russians. Now, they are fighting it. If they have principles, they should never have supported or collaborated with religious fanatism. they should never have started a war against Irak etc. Now we, muslims, need to find ways to erradicate this religious fanatism.
My sympathy goes to all the innocent people who lost loved ones yesterday in London and those lost lifes under laser bombs in Irak.
Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2005 11:38 by Krim.
This is not the time to say that London deserved to be bombed because of Bush-Blair wars. London did not deserve it and neither did Baghdad or moslem city. Those people that were killed or injured yesterday are as innocent as the ones in Baghdad. So lets be honest with ourselves! if someone does not like life in the 'INFIDEL' London then all they would do is go back home where they can rant to their heart's content! London was one of the few cities that took part in anti-war demos, and I had the honour of being there and most of the people there were not moslems.... If Bush and Blair believe in bombs and missiles and killing the innocent then that is their problem and they will be jusdged one day here or somewhere else, but it is not right to sink to their level and kill innocent people going about their daily life... and how ironic if some might have been moslem.. I work in London and I take the tube every day and I cannot understand what did the people who planted the bombs achieved out of this!!!!
My sympathy goes to all the people who lost loved ones yesterday.
Well said mcherifi - at last there are contributors on here who are not treating what happened yesterday as a huge joke, unlike on the French language forums. I hope you and everyone else in London will keep safe.
As you might have noticed there are quite a lot of people on both language forums that are sensible and sincere. However, you would find the odd ones who are not happy with themselves for some reason. I think that in the French language forums you would find a lot of teenagers who basically don't know what they are talking about!
I am new to this website but I have been impressed by the excellent level of contribution and debate especially from the English language forum
The London tragedy is appauling and no sain humain being could rejoice from this tragedy, but we must not miss the bigger picture...
Violence triggers only violence it's a vicious circle, we must condenm violence where ever it is whether it's in London, Iraq, Afganistan, Palestine, Chechenia ...
Islam is a religion of peace, Islam forbids cruelty to animals, so what can we say about humains.
There are many hadiths of our prophet Mohammad Salla allaho 3alaihi wa sallam of people who untered Jannah because of taking take of a distressed animal, so what does this tell us about treatment of other humain beings...
The BBC tonight were interviewing a devout Moslem family whose 20 year old daughter and grand-daughter is missing since the bombings yesterday. She was employed at a London bank and was on her way to work as usual. The bombers did not care who they killed or maimed. There are still bodies yet to be recovered from the underground bomb near King's Cross. Our thoughts must surely be with those whose family members are lying there dead, unable to even be recovered yet.
The people who did this are unfortunately brain-washed and I am full of rage about what they did. I consider them as victims as the innocent people they kill. The responsible for this tragedy are the guru hiding somewhere and feeding them with hatred hadiths they interpret at their will.
Killing innocent people in their country is never a solution especially when this country opened its doors for you to give you the chance to achieve what your own country does afford it to you...
It is really sad and I feel very sorry for the victims...
The people who did this are unfortunately brain-washed and I am full of rage about what they did. I consider them as victims as the innocent people they kill. The responsible for this tragedy are the guru hiding somewhere and feeding them with hatred hadiths they interpret at their will.
Killing innocent people in their country is never a solution especially when this country opened its doors to you to give you the chance to achieve what your own country does not afford it to you...
It is really sad and I feel very sorry for the victims...
the problem is quite serious and it does not affect JUST moslems...I believe that people have twisted the idea of Jihad and they made Jihhad as a 'short-cut' to paradise....I believe this is wrong... I believe in Jihad and many non-moslems are practising it now. But their idea of johad is to help one's community while alive....there are far more things to do alive than dead...this is what we need to teach our brothers and sisters and kids... Those people that blow themselves they could have been engineers, doctors,teachers....what a waste!!
We really need to re-educate ourselves with the true values of Islam..
Yes brother mcherifi as I have said many times in the past the only way to protect ourselves from fanatisism is to educate ourselves and the people around us (including our kids) in Islam, and to pay attention to whom we are getting our islamic education from. A half qualified doctor may kill you, whilst a half qualified muslim preacher may lead you to the wrong path and cause great harm to the muslim oumma.
Arrests in Leeds in connection with the attacks! The police are about to make a new statement on the situation. They confirm that one of the bombers definitely died on the bus, and have traced him, through his car left at Luton station, to an address in Leeds, where they have evacuated 600 residents and made arrests. Thank you God.
It is actually interesting that we all hope it’s not Moroccans that are behind this tragedy, in a way, it’s a bit selfish, only in a good way this time, we do not want our countrymen to be involved in something like this. But the truth is, this is bad for all of us no matter who is behind it, and no matter what their origins are. Salaam,
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2005 01:23 by almotanabi.
I personnaly think that the reasons of all this attacs are many...not only the Iraq probleme or the Palestina conflict but also the racism and the injustice that the Arabs and Muslims face in their daily life in the western countries...simply because it's understandable how can a well integrated person in those societies hurt his/her compatriots unless he/she doesn't feel belongning to them and this is the mean problem in my opinion.....
Redarding the crimes of killing...it doesn't chock me any more...every day you switch on the TV you see people killed in Iraq...children...women....it doesn't matter...this becomes normal and people get used to it...so why somewhere else should it be more important?.....
I heard an American expert, who is against what is hapenning in Iraq, talking about this conflict ....he said on the end:
without justice there is no peace and without resistance there is no justice...
salaam, Ilhem2 I agree with the first bit you said abotu integration, but not with what ou've said about killing not being shocking. It's terrible wherever it happens, it's not that what happened in London is any less important because of all the terrible injustices that have happened before, it is all wrong.
I think the only way to combat this is to counter it at a community level - people need to accept and respect muslim people, and treat them with the same manners and rights they would give anyone else. AND Muslims also need to accept and respect non-muslims - by this I don't mean become like them or follow their example where it goes against islam, but there is also a lot that can be learned from a western community, such as individual rights, better treatment of women (both of which are encouraged in Islam as far as I know)... and not to rant about the 'west' as if they were all the one kind of person with the same beliefs and behaviours, as they are not. In any case, there are clear guidelines in the Quran and hadith about the right way to treat and interact with non-muslims, and in general that which I've come across is respectful, tolerant, but not imitation nor allowing the person's religion to be influenced by the other's non-belief.
Europeans in general have a different way of ordering their social and community sphere - which it would be very useful to integrate into the Muslim community as well. I mean in respect to tolerance, non-violence, helping each other and allowing each other their privacy and personal dignity. However, as we all know there are a lot of very evil things also present in the culture.
So I think what Muslims living in the west have to do is choose that which fits into and even encourages the deen (such as 'community spirit,' charity events and helping their neighbours, pursuing higher education, treating women and girls as intelligent adults with very well-respected rights), and reject that which damages or goes against the deen - like too much of the wrong kind of tv, anti-islamic propaganda, fragmentation of the family life, sexualisation and exploitation of women and girls (including dressing styles) and materialism or thinking that religion is 'something for later on'.
And if people integrated in this way into society, and felt that they were respected and essential parts of their community, and that other people in the community lso had humanity just like them, then maybe terrorism might be less likely, at least of the most recent variety. Better education is also needed,of course, and the governments of western countries need to stop giving fuel to the 'extremists' as well.... but at a smaller level we can all do the things suggested here, and that may have some effect, inshallah, if only in the communities where we live ourselves.
From my own personal experience I think that Muslims in Britain are already well integrated and well respected. On the whole they do very well there. Many are Doctors or Lawyers, and in turn their children go on to higher education and good professions. There is always a minority, in any community, to spoil this. The majority of Christian, family orientated people, are decent hard-working, law abiding citizens, and very tolerant, perhaps more so than anywhere else in the World, of different cultures. You only have to watch the TV to see the high proportion of commentators and newsreaders from ethnic minorities. They are also probably the most charitable people in the World when it comes to giving charity to good causes, regardless of the religion or culture of the recipient country. For example, after the Tsunami disaster the amount donated per capita was probably the highest of any other nation, and much of the aid went to Muslim victims. I know of several families who sold virtually everything they owned to raise money and go over there to build homes for victims. My own children have never experienced discrimination at school, university or in the work place, even though they have Moroccan names. Hopefully now this attack will help to bring the communites closer together, as we are seeing on TV, with multi faith services condemning the bombings, in London and anywhere else in the World they are taking place. It is good to see Muslim community leaders explaining about the Koran, how it is just as much a sin to take an innocent life whether you are Muslim or Christian, and just as much a sin to take your own life. Please don't forget that Muslims in the UK number only about 1.5 million out of a population of 60 million. They cannot expect the country and it's people to change their way of life. A little more tolerance towards non-Muslims in Arab countries would also go a long way, but I won't hold my breath! These are just my opinions - I am not racist or intolerant of anyone. Religion is between man and his God - it's not anyone else's business.
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