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Discrimination against foreigners in Morocco?
lurcher21 [ PM ]
11 November 2007 17:41
I have been told that if we were to sell a property in Morocco, I, as a foreigner non-resident in Morocco, would not be able to transfer my portion of the funds from the sale out of Morocco, except over 4 years, at 25% per year from an account in ''dirhams convertibles'', whereas if I were a Moroccan national, non-resident in Morocco, I would then be able to do the transfer abroad. Is this correct?
maroc20000 [ PM ]
11 November 2007 18:06
My friend,
I don't think u have ur facts correct. Moroccans, whether reseident or non-resident, cannot convert their dirhams to dollars in a Moroccan bank and have it trensferred to the US for example just like that. There are limitations. Remember Morocco is big on something called the Hard Currency. The government doesn't let u transfer $100K in Dirhams just like that, unless u go through the bureauctratic process of Morocco. Been there done that. U may want to go to a bank and ask as I am not well-versed in the technical details.

If ur money was deposited in ur Moroccan account from overseas, yes, u can keep it there in Dirhams or another currency. But when u sell ur property and get a check from the buyer in the amount of $100K for example (in Dirhams), u cannot simply go to a bank and tell them u want that amount converted in Dollars and deposited into ur American account.

Sorry, couldn'y help u that much.

BTW, please keep us informed so we can all learn.
lurcher21 [ PM ]
11 November 2007 22:34
It seems that everybody tells us different. It is both the Moroccan bank AND the Notaire who have told us this information. What they said was also confirmed at the Bureau de Change in Rabat. Perhaps there wouldn't be such a rush of foreigners eager to buy a property in Morocco if they were told of these regulations in advance - but then that would be a bit too honest of the estate agents, would it not?
maroc20000 [ PM ]
12 November 2007 03:26
You're absolutely correct. I honestly think there is a way around this, I'm sure there is a break somewhere in the system that lets foreigners like yourself get their money converted and into their country of origin's account. I honestly think the system does not expect you to bring in half a million bucks, buy property and then when u sell it, ur money has to stay in Morocco, there has to be a way that lets u do that. Billions of dollars are being spent by foreigners on property and I don't think when they sell, the money cannot leave. It doesn't sound logical.
maroc20000 [ PM ]
12 November 2007 03:29
One more thing, I personally live outside Morocco but I do own property there. Let me ask my real estate community and get back with u on this. I am curious as well. It's driving me nuts the more I think about it.
lurcher21 [ PM ]
12 November 2007 09:12
Yes, it is very unjust! Especially when one has had to sell one's property in the UK in order to buy in Morocco. If things do not work out in Morocco and one wants to return to buy a property back home, it effectively means one is homeless. Even if we decided to let out the Moroccan house, we would not be able to use the rental income towards the rent on a house in the UK! I would be very interested to hear the views of your real estate company.
chelhman [ PM ]
12 November 2007 11:48
Hi Lurcher21,

The infos on the matter are confusing, normally the product of a sale by a non-resident, be it moroccan or non-moroccan, are freely transferable provided :

1. That the funds used for the purchase were transfered from abroad (bank statement are required as proof)
2. That the transfer has been notified to the Foreign Exchange Office (office des changes) within 6 months of the transfer.

Most people don't declare the transfer to Forex Office because they don't know they should have, and are then given the typical runaround from the administration.
As a last resort, they are ways to transfer the funds to Europe, but it costs, it can be done through invoices for services from a european company which obviously you have to pay by transfering funds to...Europe, fiduciaries in Morocco can help sometimes with that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2007 01:39 by chelhman.
maroc20000 [ PM ]
12 November 2007 19:16
My friend,
The answer I got was similar to what chelhman said above. If you had declared the amount that u transferred from abroad, yes you can take it out when u sell. And of course u must have paid all the required taxes...etc. You just need to show proof. So yes, you do get a break in ur case. I just hope you declared ur money when u initially wired it from the UK.

I was also told that u may have limitations as far as transferring a lump sum. They may only allow u to trasnfer some but not all of it or u may be able to transfer it in pieces. For example, if you wired 100K and paid a 100K and followed the declaration process, and then when u sold, let's say u sold it for 300K. They may not let u wire the entire 300K as a lump sum to the UK, you may need to break it up over a period of time or something of this nature.

Good luck Amigo,
lurcher21 [ PM ]
12 November 2007 22:28
Thank you both for this information. We do have bank statements showing the initial transfers - which were direct bank to bank transfers UK to Morocco (back in the 1990's) Nobody ever told us of the need to register this fact with the Moroccan Bureau de Change at the time of the transfer. What percentage of foreign buyers of Moroccan property actually do that? I suspect very few. If this information was given to buyers at the time of purchase there probably wouldn't be any foreigners prepared to buy over there!
What we are being told by the Notaire is that my half has to go into an account 'en dirhams convertible', and can be transferred over 4 years at 25% at a time, whilst my spouse is allowed to transfer their half back to the UK. Of course we are prepared to pay any taxes due which have not already been paid - such as value added tax.
codem35 [ PM ]
13 November 2007 00:21
what i read here is choking as i bought a house in morocco about 3 years ago
alot of foreigeners (french people in particular) run businesses in morocco and after a while they sell everything and return to their country)somehow what i read here didn t sound logical
i have a question : a lot of moroccans have accounts abroad , most politicians , rich people have accounts in switzerland how they transfer all this money out of morocco ????? Perplexe
maroc20000 [ PM ]
13 November 2007 03:40
codem35 - Just like u said, those are the elite, not the average Joe, so there are always ways to beat the system if u know what I mean.
lurcher21 [ PM ]
13 November 2007 09:35
This is more than shocking - it is disgusting. Many French couples have decided to take their retirement in Morocco and have bought a house or an apartment there. These are not rich people - they usually sell their homes in France in order to buy in Morocco. So - they spend some happy years of their retirement there - then one of the couple sadly dies. It's normal to presume that the remaining one does not want to remain in Morocco alone - and wishes to sell up and return to family in France. They then find they cannot transfer the funds back to France to buy a house or apartment back there, near their family. What good is cash in the bank in Morocco to a foreigner who is probably never going to return there? Nightmare!At the very least this rule regarding money transfer MUST be told to these people BEFORE they make the big decision to sell up and move to Morocco.
maroc20000 [ PM ]
13 November 2007 16:27
I feel ur pain my friend. Don't give up, u will be able to get ur money out, just keep on harping on the bank and Office Des Changes and hopefully u'll get there. Bon Courage,
rosette1 [ PM ]
13 November 2007 18:19
hi lurcher ,
thanks for this topic , because i have no idea about this stupid law in Morocco until i read it here, i bought a house in Morocco just this year and to be honest with you i am disgusted that those burocrats are making people s life complicated , someone told me that a lot of people they take their money with them in a briefcase from morocco because they just couldn t deal with those burocrates
i dont understand how can they have such law without taking into consideration people s circonstances
my advice to you get a good advice from financial advisor who s specialised in buying and selling properties abroad , ask your bank as well in the uk they may have few ideas , there are ways i think to get your money out of there in a brief time , do some research first
i can imagine how you feel , apparently this law is for the protection of the money circulating in the country ............but i think if they are after the big players , the millionnaires , they have to make exception for people who are not very wealthy, pensioners , couples with one holiday home etc
i heard may be this will change soon , beacuse morocco now is adopting the free market system and all these useless laws will be changed to allow capitals to move freely between countries
good luck to you and i hope you find some solution soonthumbs up
lurcher21 [ PM ]
15 November 2007 08:16
If anyone wishes to read more information concerning the money transfer regulations - I have found the website of the office des changes, which is very informative. I just did a normal search with msn - and put 'office des changes maroc' The legislation is all there in detail - but in French of course. May be helpful to some of you. I have also found an English property company based in Morocco who handle the purchase and sale of property there - including the money transfer minefield. Of course they charge a fee for this service - which is detailed in advance so you know how much you are paying - and I guess it could be money well spent for those unable to do it for themselves. Let's hope the free market system does become law there - but I won't hold my breath!
lurcher21 [ PM ]
25 November 2007 16:01
Just another point to consider for those of you thinking about buying property in Morocco - if you are a foreigner married to a Moroccan national. We have a friend, a German lady married to a Moroccan national and resident in Morocco, who has just found out that if her husband dies before her, his 50% of their house (in joint names) will pass on to his brother, not to her!! Neither of them actually like his brother - so to avoid this nightmare happening they are having to pay Notaires and fees/taxes etc., amounting to around 5000 euros, to get the house changed over from joint names into just hers. We still don't know what might happen if she dies first! LOL.
wardamaroc30 [ PM ]
26 November 2007 01:25
lurcher , that problem could be solved by writing a will, which says clearly their wish in the case of her death , or his death
in case of the will his brother loses that right to inherit so it is cheaper to write a will, and it is guaranteed
Yani [ PM ]
26 November 2007 03:33
I think this was mentioned before, but I will doesn't hold much! He ( the brother) can contest the will and actually win...unless the property is sold in its entirety to herin thi casse!

that's one matter that needs to be seriously addressed by the authorities!!! but Understand it is not in their interest, So they won't venture in even thinking about it! Your and my small potatoes are just that for them...but again legalizing a WILL would be great, let's keep dreaming!
wardamaroc30 [ PM ]
26 November 2007 13:38
yani ,i didn t understand what you talking about????
for exemple if i own a property in morocco , no children and my husband is foreigner for instance in case of my death he won t inherit me even if i have a legal will which states he will be my sole inheritant?????i don t understand Perplexein the case of presence of a legal will that law of the family inherit doesn t exist , a will annul those islamic laws ?
anyone to explain this ?????
wardamaroc30 [ PM ]
26 November 2007 13:41
NB: what do you mean by legalizing a will: a will is legal anyway ???it s done by a solicitor and witnesses i think ???!!!,
is ther many types of wills the legal and the illegal ones ????Perplexevery confusingSleeping
wardamaroc30 [ PM ]
26 November 2007 13:45
an other NB: suppose i have a property in Morocco not married , but i don t want my family to inherit me , and want to leave it to a child , an orphan from the street , so i write a will ?is that mean that will not worth the paper it is written on >???
is a will in morocco is just a joke ?????any one in this field to shed the light on these dialemas thank you!!!
lurcher21 [ PM ]
2 December 2007 15:39
Islamic Law comes into force in ALL circumstances,as far as we know. Somebody correct me if I am wrong but this is my belief. Because my German friend and her Moroccan husband have only daughters - his brother would inherit his half of the property before their daughters! This is why they went to great expense to change the whole 100% of the property over to her name only. Apparently if they had had a son, he would inherit the same amount as the husband's brother.
Yani [ PM ]
2 December 2007 17:19
Lurcher1,

What you just came up with is what I know, too! Hence, a WILL is not a LOck!
adds [ PM ]
2 December 2007 17:55
Surely before one i going to buy in Morocco, Angola, Afghanistan or Iraq; one should do a bit of research on the law of the land. When you are in Rome you do as Roman do; if you don’t like that law you take your money and by a tent in Mauritania.
Foreigners have made the house Market in Morocco too expensive. Amazing how non Moroccan residents are allowed to buy in Morocco. How about Moha and his wife Fadma could sell their land in laf9ih ben Saleh and buy a little farm in cote d’azure. Surely it’s fair there will be no discrimination in obtaining a visa and residency.
Regards
\\\///
Adidas wear not for all
lurcher21 [ PM ]
3 December 2007 14:29
Quote
adds
Surely before one i going to buy in Morocco, Angola, Afghanistan or Iraq; one should do a bit of research on the law of the land. When you are in Rome you do as Roman do; if you don’t like that law you take your money and by a tent in Mauritania.
Foreigners have made the house Market in Morocco too expensive. Amazing how non Moroccan residents are allowed to buy in Morocco. How about Moha and his wife Fadma could sell their land in laf9ih ben Saleh and buy a little farm in cote d’azure. Surely it’s fair there will be no discrimination in obtaining a visa and residency.
Regards
\\\///
Adidas wear not for all

Exactly - but don't forget that residency is not the same as owning a holiday home (maison secondaire) Being from the UK I don't know exactly what the regs are in France for foreigners buying a property there - only the rules which apply to buyers in France from the UK. I would suppose that a buyer of Moroccan nationality has every right to buy a property in France, should they wish. That said, if a foreigner is allowed to buy a property in Morocco they should have every right to sell it if they wish to, and to return the money to wherever they want - it is their own money after all. If I decided to become resident in Morocco I would of course have to abide by the Moroccan residency laws and obtain the necessary permits. You either have a free market or you don't - but what I am saying is that the laws should be clearly pointed out prior to buying so that people intending to buy can make an informed decision.
stardevil [ PM ]
3 December 2007 14:33
i find the idea of blaming morocco problemes on foreigneres is pathetic and ridiculous thumbs down
the only objective of such idea is planting hatress against tourists

house prices in Morocco still very afordable in a lot of towns , of course touristic town the prices are higher that s caled the house market offeres and demands , and that s the case all over the world , majorca in spain is an exemple , the carribean countries too

i dont like adidas i prefer NIKE they are more moderate , credibleEvil and use common sense Censored
stardevil [ PM ]
3 December 2007 14:39
i absolutely agree with , this law need to be changed as soon as possible, people should have the freedom to buy and to sell whenever they wish and do whatever they like with their own money it is nothing to do with those ignorant burocrats , moreover , this law is not known to new buyers , where is the so called transparency , they should inform the new buyers and give them an ideas and not hide this trap until they discover it themselves , it is very misleading and not honest

Quote
lurcher21
Quote
adds
Surely before one i going to buy in Morocco, Angola, Afghanistan or Iraq; one should do a bit of research on the law of the land. When you are in Rome you do as Roman do; if you don’t like that law you take your money and by a tent in Mauritania.
Foreigners have made the house Market in Morocco too expensive. Amazing how non Moroccan residents are allowed to buy in Morocco. How about Moha and his wife Fadma could sell their land in laf9ih ben Saleh and buy a little farm in cote d’azure. Surely it’s fair there will be no discrimination in obtaining a visa and residency.
Regards
\\\///
Adidas wear not for all

Exactly - but don't forget that residency is not the same as owning a holiday home (maison secondaire) Being from the UK I don't know exactly what the regs are in France for foreigners buying a property there - only the rules which apply to buyers in France from the UK. I would suppose that a buyer of Moroccan nationality has every right to buy a property in France, should they wish. That said, if a foreigner is allowed to buy a property in Morocco they should have every right to sell it if they wish to, and to return the money to wherever they want - it is their own money after all. If I decided to become resident in Morocco I would of course have to abide by the Moroccan residency laws and obtain the necessary permits. You either have a free market or you don't - but what I am saying is that the laws should be clearly pointed out prior to buying so that people intending to buy can make an informed decision.
Bengi [ PM ]
3 December 2007 14:48
A lot if nonsense talk.

The law is against speculators.

Houses/flats changed hands in less than a week, with a big fat bonus.

This happened in essaouira and marrakech and happening now in tangiers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2007 04:15 by Bengi.
adds [ PM ]
3 December 2007 16:13
Nananana.... can you get Moroccan currency abroad NO, why? If you can’t it for a reason, even that you can still take your flipping money a bit at a time.
If you want a second home why not have it in Wales, Scotland, Jersey or London …?
You get all these guinea pigs going to poorer countries, try to change rules to suit them, criticize like hell and further more they are never happy.


Adidas Best wear in Morocco no Nike
stardevil [ PM ]
3 December 2007 17:36
Evilcan you get moroccan currency abroad?? what sort of question is this and what s that got to do with price f potatoesCensored
secondly , people who buy property in morocco ther ae looking for warm countries with the sun and cheap standard of living , who wants to spend his holidays in rainy cold scotlandNo No
morocco spend a lot of money in promoting tourisme , this is contradicting the doal of competing with other countries in property market
morocco needs foreign curreny and tHATS a fact , how a foreign investor will gamble with his money if he knows that his money will be trapped in morocco and he won t have the choice to move his capitals when and where he likes to

adidas is heavy and influence Bood circulation and with a bad blood circulation the brain celLs die and dont think straight my advice steak to the NIKEEvilSleeping
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