Morocco # English board

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Morocco # English board

منتدى المغرب و المغاربة حول العالم

[www.inwent.org]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2006 03:45 by Krim.

Thank you, Krim.

Somehow I had to go back to this passage,taken from the link, and think twice, if only...

"Contrary to the Asian Tigers, Arab countries have not been interested to invite highly qualified Arab professionals working abroad to return back home. Their know-how should at least be used within the framework of joint research groups.".

Dear Yani
I have to tell you that asian Tigers are trusting and investing in the education of their people in general.
Once you do that, you will undestand the need for bringing expertise from abroad and the logical thing is to encourage your own people to come back home.

Amine to that, Mr. Krim.
I'd like to throw this point out to serious and interested readers in this corner of the forum...May be we need a certain insecurity in Morocco to shake the lazziness up! And trust the youth of tomorrow with ropes of Hope for a better morocco...I've encoutered many a moroccan worthy of great responsibility that could make a difference, but too bad they are elsewhere other than where they should be, me included,Morocco!...but may be it's not meant to be...the colonial conflict has been ingrained in the moroccan mentality fueled by old rusty minded sub-leaders that nip bright minds in mudddddd...Those are the pus that need to be gone!

Some would make the remark that it's big talk and there's need for a radical change...Somehow the Godfathe, the movie, comes to mind...Hope you make sense of this.

Dear Yani
I have to tell that changes are already taking place in Morocco. There is a lot of pressure inside and from outside. In a deal, 30 000 to 35 000 govenment employees were allowed to retire at ages like 50. The governement was smart in paying like about 80 000 euro each. Many of these people were working as enginneers, scientists, professors....etc. All these were wasting governement money with a zero output.
Now politicians seem to think about efficiency and are trying to reform the moroccan administration etc...

In the US, such employees will be fired without any financial deal in order to put much pressure on the others to work hard and try to be usefull.

So changes are taking place and I hope this will be the beginning of big and fast changes.....
Sorry Yani, I am an optimist today
My kids are laughuing and playing around me

Well that's good to hear. I guess I'm still not rid of some recent memories of the old country and its administrators. Glad to hear things are on the go for the better.

hi everybody,

Thanks krim for the report…it’s although sad to know that such researches are not made by Arabs themes selves...

Yani,
to your point how could highly qualified or simple Moroccans in overseas be convinced to return to their country ? I think it’s a responsibility shared between the government and the Moroccans in overseas theme selves...if we want to do something for our country we should be prepared to make sacrifices...nothing is free in this life…we can’t just live comfortably in other countries expecting that changes will happen one day up there ...I think the country needs the contribution of all of us…those with high qualification for their knowledge and those without qualification but for their investment since many Moroccans have been working overseas for long timee...of course it’s not simple to make this decision and it’s absolutely not easy to accept many things over there…but I don’t see any other alternative...however this still is only one part of the several steps should be taken to improve the country....

Good point MS Ilhem2,
Just to reinforce it, I attempted to do my share, as an individual, and volunteer in Projects here and there building a small network of interested parties both Western and "Other"...the process was so slow it discouraged the participamts andthey ended up taking there business elsewhere! More, That doesn't stop ppl like me thinking about the country. We're accomplishing great things andtrying to spread the seeds of hard work, Honesty in the process and ultimately a move forward! Incredible the reality you face when you're trying to bring a positive initiative and the locals see it as a take over of their already established powers! nonethless, I stay posivitve and true to my principle, as an individual,...I'm content now doing little things individually because I can see immediate results, like smiles on the faces of some forgotten families, homeles kids...I tried to go through administrative channels, but they gave more grief than what's happening on the naked streets of morocco.
let's hope tomorrow's going to be better
Peace and love to all.
YAni

Hi everybody,


Hi yani,

I know it could be extremely difficult to cope with the mentality in Morocco if you used to live in a European country. But how would things improve if we don’t contribute at it? I was talking last time to a real estate agent in Marrakesh and he said Riads’s prices become very high last years because a lot of French and English people are selling old Riads renovating them and making theme to small luxury hotels with traditional Moroccan flair....and guess what it’s working....fully booked in high season...the room could costs 100 Euro per night....I’m wondering how can Europeans make business in our country and we, with Moroccan background, complaining ?!....

Hopping alone won’t change any thing trust me....

Ilhem2;

Let's jut say that we agree on the principle that nothing is accomplished without conscious effort from MRE...just to close that part of the discussion!

As far as real estates and what's happening in Marrakech...I'd liketo see it from both angles! Yes, It's a great initiative that "EUROPEANS" are investing in "our" country and "we" shouldn't complain...However, not even the lower middle class or the middle one can afford staying in those places for 100 Euros a night!!! I stayed in some places in Mrrakech in the mid and late 90s " for conferences" and the room was more than that a night!! and I beleive the prices have gone up wildly...problem of all this is the Wages of the regular workers in those places!!! How low are they and have they been!!! There are ppl that know they are exploited and can't do anything about it! It's not the moroccan mentality that comes into play here!...it's no regulation of compensation that rubs ppl the wrong way; to put it nicely! though there's nothing nice about this situation!

More on your point about Riads and old homes renovated and sold for fortunes!!! who are the buyers? and what does that do to your regular moroccan couple who dreams about their own little place they call theirs!!! IF they happen to find a place decent, They have to pay Morgages for the rest of their lives...Banks get all the profits from Jacking up the prices!!!

I am all for foreign investments but do we have the terrain ready for it? the bulk ofthe population are bearly making ends meet, and happy doing so, what about a secure future?...I can go on and on...Long term plans are needed and ideas are there! and I'm not gonna bore you with mine!

This is only one facet to look at, and I'm sure if we keep at it, we can come up with lots of pros yes, but lots of cons as well!

I am a believer in rising the awarness level should we want to advance! There's plenty of money circulating in morocco, but we don't see the effects of it on the majority of the real labor force! I just don't! and I have been around in morocco and observed jsut like any other MRE andtrust me on this, I'm not the typical MRE who "vacations" in morocco a certain way, I probably get more tired there than here...and it's fun, informative...
Krim, hope we're still on the subject and we haven't ruined the thread already!

Later

Dear Yani,
Germany was devided inn two parts after World war II, at this time we had a homogenous population with the same backgtound. Then we had two political systems. In the east a centalized system and a corrupted party. If you were loyal to the party and even if you were a leazy, incomptent citizen you had a chance to have a leading position. As a incompetent leader, your institution had no chance to achieve anything. Your competent colleagues will loose any motivations by watching you, the boss, cultivate mediocrity.This was the rule in east Germany.The system did collapse
In the west where you have freemarkt, many parties and the competition between these parties, politicians could not afford to do the same thing, of fear not be elected. So they had to make things work.
This 40 years human experience show the effect of a political system on the developement of a country.

So you can draw conclusion and see the moroccan system......rigidity and and and....

Salam everyone,

Quote
Yani
Ilhem2;

...As far as real estates and what's happening in Marrakech...I'd liketo see it from both angles! Yes, It's a great initiative that "EUROPEANS" are investing in "our" country and "we" shouldn't complain...However, not even the lower middle class or the middle one can afford staying in those places for 100 Euros a night!!! I stayed in some places in Mrrakech in the mid and late 90s " for conferences" and the room was more than that a night!! and I beleive the prices have gone up wildly...

I believe you dear Yani …and I’m not talking here about Moroccan tourists ….it’s about foreign visitors because they have bigger purchasing power which is quite profitable for the country…. Those people are able to pay 100 Euros /night to have nice holiday…the proof is those Riads and many other 5 stars hotels are fully booked in summer and Christmas time…. other thing it’s a big difference between business tourists and leisure tourists…tourism in Morocco is more based on leisure ….I stayed 3 years ago in Ibis in August (high season) for 40 Euro per night with breakfast…and the room quality was great to compare with many countries in Europe (Spain, France...ect) ….trust me Accord Group ( the owner of Ibis ) pay enough wages for the employees….some of the European tour operator get the room for 20 Euro within a package of 6 nights….. So I let you imagine the profit made selling the room for 100 Euro per night…some times per person / per night…..


Anyway…I’m not gonna talk about product development in Moroccan tourism market I just wanna give you a small idea what investor can do in our country with all social and cultural differences…with all administrative problems …why can’t we do it?????

I agree with you that the whole social system has to be reformed but the reality is you can’t do it in one time…it’s a process that starts step by step and takes many years to achieve the first positive results….if we don’t have enough motivation and are not patient enough we’re not gonna make it... take look in the European history …you’ll see that the present situation is hard work of about 40 years since the World War II …what I’m trying to say is that we should stop criticising and react….. because it’s not leading to any thing…. I’m not specifically talking about you…it’s about all Moroccans overseas …me included… If we have a particular concept how the country should be (mostly like one of the West European countries at least economically)….we should start ….do something for it…..we should be involved not waiting always that others (the government, the politicians…ect) change things in the way we want ….it’s never gonna happen....