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yaafin a écrit:
I have no plans to go back to Morocco, or hire a lawyer, as I already wasted $6,000 (dowry + gold) on the marriage. Hiring a lawyer or returning to Morocco, will only add to my loss, as the lawyer would unlikely be able to get me my things back successfully.
Do you think the best thing, is to not go to Morocco, and the girl will herself most likely do the divorce?
How long does the divorce take?
Thank you
Citation
lolotte* a écrit:Citation
yaafin a écrit:
I have no plans to go back to Morocco, or hire a lawyer, as I already wasted $6,000 (dowry + gold) on the marriage. Hiring a lawyer or returning to Morocco, will only add to my loss, as the lawyer would unlikely be able to get me my things back successfully.
Do you think the best thing, is to not go to Morocco, and the girl will herself most likely do the divorce?
How long does the divorce take?
Thank you
Your options seem to be very limited as I highly doubt that there is a possibility to do things outside Moroccan courts (unless a settlement between spouses is reached).
You took a risk... you married a women who lived far away from you, trusted her, gave her presents etc. try not to think too much about how much you "invested".
Try to assess whether she will agree to "settle" or what intentions she might have.
You can take a look at a similar post, I gave further information that might be helpful Divorce
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yaafin a écrit:
No, I did not take a risk. This is NOT a strange woman that I married from a far away land. I'm not an idiot, that would marry an unknown woman. This is the NIECE of a family I've known here, in the UK for FIFTEEN YEARS, since I was a child, and they SUGGESTED her to us when we went to them and asked about marriage. They are a religious family, so we trusted them to suggest for us a good religious girl. UNFORTUNATELY her number one intention was not marriage, but to use me to gain entry into the UK. The sad thing is, I only found that out AFTER the marriage. It's Okay. Allah Kareem.
Yes, I've stopped thinking about all the money wasted. And time. I accept it was my fate to meet her. Qadr Allah. So I try not to think too much about all the waste. Alhamdulilah for everything, bad and good.
I've no idea about her intentions. They've stopped contact. I don't know if she initiated the divorce already or not. As the days go by, the only thing I can do is hope to receive a letter from the Moroccon court notifying me of her intention to divorce. That way I would know what her intentions are, as they are currently ignoring me.
I fear if I travel to Morocco to represent myself in court, I might be asked to pay money towards her. Possibly because I'm a foreigner, and she is Moroccon. I don't know. I just don't trust the court. I don't expect any justice at all. Even though I AM the victim!
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Doris.La.Bleue a écrit:
Salam alaykoum,
I am sorry for the situation you got involved in.
I just want to tell only one thing: the mahr is yours! As you didn't have sex with her, she doesn't have the right to keep it for herself. It's your right to get it back. Try to get it back. If she doesn't want to give it back to you, it will be considered as a theft.
If she refuses, it will be between her and Allah.
May Allah help you.
Yeah, it's unfair not to be returned anything, when I didn't share the bed with her, or do anything that married couple do. It's unfair for people to say forget about the mahr, when I paid it, and left a week later.Citation
Doris.La.Bleue a écrit:
Fight for your rights!
Don't give up!
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Doris.La.Bleue a écrit:
Salam alaykoum,
I am sorry for the situation you got involved in.
I just want to tell only one thing: the mahr is yours! As you didn't have sex with her, she doesn't have the right to keep it for herself. It's your right to get it back. Try to get it back. If she doesn't want to give it back to you, it will be considered as a theft.
If she refuses, it will be between her and Allah.
May Allah help you.
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lolotte* a écrit:Citation
Doris.La.Bleue a écrit:
Salam alaykoum,
I am sorry for the situation you got involved in.
I just want to tell only one thing: the mahr is yours! As you didn't have sex with her, she doesn't have the right to keep it for herself. It's your right to get it back. Try to get it back. If she doesn't want to give it back to you, it will be considered as a theft.
If she refuses, it will be between her and Allah.
May Allah help you.
Assalam aleikoum,
You should be extra careful with what you claim... the situation is unclear and the question of the Dowry has a number of rules depending on the exact situation.
Even though there was no "consummation" the husband does not necessarily have the right to get back the entirety of the Mahr given...
generally he is allowed to get only half of it back (depending on the facts), there are also many rules concerning the gifts etc.
Wa Allah a3lam...
Please note that in our society it is no longer about what's fair/unfair it is more about cutting the losses or avoiding more trouble.
You may assume that if this women was really solely aiming at using Yaafin in order to leave her country, she might cause a lot of trouble, drag him for years...
At some point you need to be realistic and look at how things really work or are, especially when you take into consideration how the judicial system works (bribery...).
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yaafin a écrit:
- I believe the situation is actually very straight forward. And the ruling in most cases is quite straight forward, that if the husband has not consummated the marriage, then he is entitled for the return of the full mahr. I don't know the specific rulings in Moroccon courts, but that's a general rule.
- Regarding gifts, I haven't came across anything that indicates that she can be enforced to return it, so I won't expect much from that.
- I don't think it's within her interests to drag me for years, when she can rather begin the search for someone else now, and try her luck a second time, than waste time with someone who is clearly not willing to take her with him. Why would she want to waste her time with me, and having any connection at all. There isn't any benefit, and the only thing that would benefit her, is severing ties as soon as possible, so she can legally marry someone else.
- I assume she can pay and get out of this situation without returning a single thing. I don't expect much fairness, as I'm not Moroccon. I doubt the court will side with the truth, but rather with the Moroccon.
I disagree with your forum post. Because what she did, means that she should return the full Mahr, based on the fact the marriage was null from the start (i.e she married me by deception, it was not genuine). In such cases, the entire marriage is void, and thus the mahr is to be returned. Since the mahr is based on a genuine marriage. Since I was mislead, therefore it must be returned, as it's considered like theft, regardless of whether she wants to divorce or not.Citation
lolotte* a écrit:Citation
yaafin a écrit:
- I believe the situation is actually very straight forward. And the ruling in most cases is quite straight forward, that if the husband has not consummated the marriage, then he is entitled for the return of the full mahr. I don't know the specific rulings in Moroccon courts, but that's a general rule.
- Regarding gifts, I haven't came across anything that indicates that she can be enforced to return it, so I won't expect much from that.
- I don't think it's within her interests to drag me for years, when she can rather begin the search for someone else now, and try her luck a second time, than waste time with someone who is clearly not willing to take her with him. Why would she want to waste her time with me, and having any connection at all. There isn't any benefit, and the only thing that would benefit her, is severing ties as soon as possible, so she can legally marry someone else.
- I assume she can pay and get out of this situation without returning a single thing. I don't expect much fairness, as I'm not Moroccon. I doubt the court will side with the truth, but rather with the Moroccon.
I disagree with your stances...
In your situation there is apparently no Khul3, your wife does not seem to be the one willing to divorce (which involves most of the time return of dowry).
In situations where the marriage was not consummated you can find rules in the Quran.
I would like to bring to your attention verse 237 of sourat Al Baqarah [2:237]
"If you divorce them before touching them, but after you had set the dowry for them, the compensation shall be half the dowry, unless they voluntarily forfeit their rights, or the party responsible for causing the divorce chooses to forfeit the dowry. To forfeit is closer to righteousness. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. GOD is Seer of everything you do."
Unfortunately when "honor" or feelings are involved people can become irrational and tend to focus on one thing: revenge.
I hope that both of you will be wise and find a way to settle "peacefully".
As to your last comment well things tend to depend on factors such as the Justice involved, the attorneys, the parties, claims, proofs etc.
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yaafin a écrit:
I disagree with your forum post. Because what she did, means that she should return the full Mahr, based on the fact the marriage was null from the start (i.e she married me by deception, it was not genuine). In such cases, the entire marriage is void, and thus the mahr is to be returned. Since the mahr is based on a genuine marriage. Since I was mislead, therefore it must be returned, as it's considered like theft, regardless of whether she wants to divorce or not.
Citation
lolotte* a écrit:Citation
yaafin a écrit:
I disagree with your forum post. Because what she did, means that she should return the full Mahr, based on the fact the marriage was null from the start (i.e she married me by deception, it was not genuine). In such cases, the entire marriage is void, and thus the mahr is to be returned. Since the mahr is based on a genuine marriage. Since I was mislead, therefore it must be returned, as it's considered like theft, regardless of whether she wants to divorce or not.
Salam,
A marriage is "void" in extreme situations not based on how a spouse "feels" or "interprets" the partner's behavior.
I assume you know that under Shari3a law every claim needs to be supported by "strong" evidence...
Proving that her main intent was to defraud, that she only married in order to leave her country is extremely difficult.
Do you have such "clear" or strong evidence? I doubt it...
In these type of cases there is no certainty as to the outcome
you consequently should not authomatically assume that your marriage is invalid.
As'Salam Aliekum Sister,Citation
malekins a écrit:
Salam all,
I'm not moroccan, but I do have a question for you.
In Marocco is the dowry indicated in some documents when getting married ? (i'm from tunisia and I doubt having this information in any documents).
I'm asking this because if it is the case in Morocco, you could have this element when confronting justice (if you do so) ? And that might be helping getting it back !
If not (I don't know the girl so just a guess) she might "lower" what you gave her in order to give you back less...
Anyway, I understand your point is just to settle the situation, and I don't want to alarm you too much, but a I know a woman in Tunisia who married a tunisian guy living in France, he intended to divorce but the woman is still making it hard (because of money and the so-called European dream). I'm not judging her or him, but it went a bit crazy (the situation is different because they did had a "married" life together for few years)... as far as I know those weren't that much into Religion...
If the girl you are talking about is quite into religion I think she'll be looking for another husband to achieve her religious aims and will give you back what's yours only to please Allah.
May everything work out fine for you !
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yaafin a écrit:
Wa Aliekum As'Salam
This is certainly not based on how I feel. I would never claim anything unless I have something to prove my claims.
Unfortunately, due to the very nature of the evidence I have (online accounts/ skype messages etc), which is strong and proves my claims, I highly doubt it would be considered, because she can claim it is not hers, and someone else is responsible for it (i.e Me).
I even showed the evidence to her cousin, and she said, "how do we know you're not responsible for it" (i.e saying that I am setting up those accounts and making up the evidence).
Although it can be proven it was her account, and no one else was behind it, apart from her, using login details (i.p address etc), I don't think the court will hire I.T specialists to confirm the evidence I have.
The marriage should be null, because she misrepresented herself. I also have photographic evidence I found, that shows she isn't the 'religious muhajaba girl' she was trying to show to me. I married based on what I saw. And what I saw was a false image, lies. Thus the marriage is void, as I was tricked.
Citation
lolotte* a écrit:Citation
yaafin a écrit:
Wa Aliekum As'Salam
This is certainly not based on how I feel. I would never claim anything unless I have something to prove my claims.
Unfortunately, due to the very nature of the evidence I have (online accounts/ skype messages etc), which is strong and proves my claims, I highly doubt it would be considered, because she can claim it is not hers, and someone else is responsible for it (i.e Me).
I even showed the evidence to her cousin, and she said, "how do we know you're not responsible for it" (i.e saying that I am setting up those accounts and making up the evidence).
Although it can be proven it was her account, and no one else was behind it, apart from her, using login details (i.p address etc), I don't think the court will hire I.T specialists to confirm the evidence I have.
The marriage should be null, because she misrepresented herself. I also have photographic evidence I found, that shows she isn't the 'religious muhajaba girl' she was trying to show to me. I married based on what I saw. And what I saw was a false image, lies. Thus the marriage is void, as I was tricked.
I am no judge or Shari3a specialist, I am just bringing few things I know that might be relevant.
You are too personally involved in the matter to be able to have a impartial view on it… a Justice or 3alim might be able to give you a precise idea.
Feelings are automatically involved you consequently may think that the “evidence” you gathered to support your claim is “relevant” or “enough” when that’s not the case.
I did not say that you had zero evidence, I said “strong” evidence something that would substantially prove your claim.
A Skype account, basing everything on your interpretation of things is not considered as a strong evidence.
Moreover evidence gathered by "setting up a trap” such as creating a similar Skype account is hardly considered.
Misrepresentation is difficult to prove and generally requires to prove a malicious intent to defraud.
Do not forget brother that you have a duty before marrying to make reasonable efforts, to inquire about the potential spouse, inquire etc.
Marrying based on what you saw might not be enough to have a marriage void.
Most of the time you need written evidence from the Spouse, a number of witnesses under oath etc.
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