Lalla manana
boessia [ PM ] [ ]
March 27, 2008 04:14PM
Today I saw a little bit of a documentary on the moroccan channel about some people who 'worship' persons like a lalla manana or some guy called bouasalham? My question is why???. Aren't they muslims and don't they know that is shirk? This is on many places in morocco and I think it's terrible. Who made this people believe in these persons, to pray there or ask them for help. Is't just like black magic, that happens a lot in morocco. Don't these people have trust in Allah the Almighty?

What do you think?
Minniemouse [ PM ] [ ]
March 27, 2008 04:45PM
Lol! lalla manana grinning smiley

I am not an expert so can't really give a religious opinion on this phenomena but i'm not sure either you can qualify this rites as shirk.

These are usually "zawias" where Sufi people go to perform dhikr and pray God. They sometimes hold a tomb of the person who founded the place, these people are considered as saints by many muslims because during their lifetime, they were deeply pious people and thus have acquired a high level of spirituality (it's quite phylosophical but it you read a bit about sufism, you'll understand that there many levels to achieve before the "nirvana" grinning smiley). Some of these people happen to have healing powers so people visit them to get cured (this is shared by all religions and many doctors and scientists do believe in these powers although no one can explain the rational behind them) so, when these people die, they get buried in these zawias and generation after generation go to visit them and claim their baraka to obtain whaterver they are seeking from God.

Now there many school of thoughts on this one. Some people don't consider this as relevant to Islam and condamn these acts as shirk while others don't see any harm in it. If you think about it, "awliae salihin" are mentionned in the Kuran, they have a "special" rank after the prophets and the disciples, why do you think God mentionned them?

Unfortunately, in Morocco and many countries where people are illeterate and ignorant on the concepts of religion, there are a lot of misinterpretations and peole end up doing the wrong thing like using these saints as an intermediary or asking them directly for healing or wathever, this obviously is not acceptable as we are required to invoke God directly without intermediary.

There is no sincerer love than the love of food. George Bernard Shaw
boessia [ PM ] [ ]
March 27, 2008 05:20PM
So I consider this as shirk. I mean Rassoul (SAW) is a prophet, but that doesn't mean we go to his grave and pray there or ask him for something. That's what mosques are for. To pray to Allah swt and to ask Him for forgiveness or help, which you also can do at home. People stay people, On televison they called them saints, whch is not true. And about that some people think it's harmless, just read the Coran. Allah SWT warned us for shirk.
Hicham_A [ PM ] [ ]
March 30, 2008 02:14PM

great Analysis Minnie, you are defintily right,

i just want to add that these saints are now dead and most of the time their descendants take advantage of what they achieved and of people's ignorance about Islam and its precepts, this goes to the extent of sharing charity visitors give when they visit these places and fighting for it.. i have just read a book about "bouya Omar", this wali is from "Al albayt" as many moroccans (adarissa, 3alawiyine..) but was really someone special, the environment in which he lived was was one of illeteracy and ignorance (17t or 18th Century) and for the majority of morrocans of this period, it was impossible to make the distinctions between what a waliy can achieve before and after his death, meaning that, as we all know, Man's work in Islam ( according to a Hadith) is finished when one dies except three things: a "continuous" charity like a mosque or a school, a good work that people would use after his death, like an invention, and a son or daughter that would pray for him after his death...

However,these aawliya are not responsible for what it is done in their names, most of them were pious sufis and some of them great mujahiddine also as " sidi rahal" who enhanced fighting against the spanish and portuguese who occupied moroccan cities, some of them had really barakate or karamate (nothing to do with the japenese Karma tongue sticking out smiley ) bu people's collective memory invented unbelievable things..

wa allahou a3lam

"The true traveller is without goal, it is the absence of goals which creates the ultimate traveller."Gao Xingjian 'Soul Mountain'
boessia [ PM ] [ ]
March 30, 2008 06:18PM
Thank you both for your explanations. The reason why is now more clear. It's just too bad... Of course that people like sidi rahal are in our eyes heroes. And there's nothing wrong with this, but it's another thing when people are 'worshipping' these people. This is why knowledge is very important.
Pacifico7 [ PM ] [ ]
April 03, 2008 12:47PM
hi every1, i think d main problem here is that worchip becomes like a customs, that why those ppll just immitate their antecedents.