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منتدى المغرب و المغاربة حول العالم

I don’t care about how the jerks explain what the Quran says in this regards, I don’t give a shit about what our culture permitted in the dark ages, If any man hits a woman, in my book he’s a coward, a big Hmar and even a big Kidar. But wait a second, I also say exactly the same about any women who’d stay with a jerk of this kind and not take his ass to court, enough of this bunch of unsecure afghan educated, child molesters and jerks harming the most beautiful thing God created, Add your comment and let this group of caveman know you’re not going to take it anymore.
this article appeard on jareedat al massa hier about what moroccan women endure in Italy
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/03/2008 08:58 by bikhor.

Salam


The coran has nothing to do with violence against women, to explain it in a short way, the imperative form in the quran has different A7kam - rules - even if it is stated it doesn't mean that it is not prohibited.. and Hadiths of the prophet PBUH confirm this, and they are quite few, this is from a jurisprudential islamic point of view...

I don't think that it is even cultural, i think that it is related to socio cultural context characterized by illiteracy and poverty, and when people from this backgroung go elswhere, they do take their plagues with them, and the majority of moroccans in Italy come from regions which are the poorest in Morocco, otherwise they would have stayed where they were..

Personally, I saw the article in Almassae and i didn't want to read it because i know that it is the kind of articles that gives you a headache, and when it happens abroad it just confirms to other people that we are violent and agressive and we do mistreat our women, which is how we are depicted in their media...

i meant socioeconomic instead of sociocultural

Salam everyone,

Only coward men beat up women. For some people, it is a way to have a control over a person, to prove their manhood.

In Islam, women are honored.

Our beloved Prophet (PBUH) never used violence against his wives.

Wife battering and Islam do not go hand in hand.

Kind regards,

Latifa

I agree with Hicham ,we need to look at these people in Italy in most cases they come from poor,rural parts & to them a wife is some one doing a job & they are doing her a favour ....ect

I believe some one in Morocco should make a stand & send a team mad up of social workers imams & doctors to works with the community in Italy as it needs help & its getting to late .

As the reasons behind domestic violance its a big issue & needs to be tackled by the society as whole to lower its levels as it does exist everywhere & from both sexes...

With all due respect to all, let’s not continue finding excuses for these cowards such as poverty and illiteracy and socioeconomic reasons, poor and rich Moroccans do it, illiterate and educated ones also do it, laws need to change and start punishing these criminals, these half-men need to be in prisons, period.

I do agree that the law needs to change but with it we need to change mentalities & tackle this big issue we have in Italy as soon as possible .
Laws need to be applied & enforced & we all know that our justice system like our educations need to improve & quickly if we have any chance of going forwards ...

the problem of violence against women is prevailing and general even in the socalled developped countries

[www.womensaid.org.uk]

Any type of beatings should be erradicated, should it be women, kids or any living creature. And I suppose no religion or law is in favor of that.

I think the only solution is to introduce what they have already in Developped countries ,women support unit teams in every police station , they react promptly as soon as a victim call them
Imams and religion need to stay out of this , unfortunately the religion allows the beating up of women
a quick survey in any moroccan street if a bloke asked about this subject he will quote some verse or hadith to justify violance against women , i did watch so many religion programs in arab channels discussing this and they all say it is allowed to hit the woman lightly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!how pathetic is this !!!

the civil law need to be above all and protect women against this shameful behaviour
it s true aggression against women exist in developped countries but it s not very commen because there are laws and strict rules , if a european citizen hit his wife and she report him to the police he will be grabbed from his ass and thrown in jail, also her needs to sign documents to stay far from her house
if he breachs this he will be locked for up to a year
in muslim arabe countries women have no protection whatsoever even their parents tell them the famous sentence SEBRI ALA WLADK, rah rajlk khlih ydrbek !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
any man who hit a woman in my opinion is a looser with serious mental problems and deserve to be thrown in jail for the rest of his life

Thank you whatsup, that's exactly the kind of reaction I was hoping to find here in this forum not excuses for these jerks, we have to raise the language of condemnation, we have to swear to expose these practices and we have to remove ANY excuse possible for these assholes to hide behind. We have to call them with all the bad names in the book, we have to write on any forum we may be part of about these barbaric practices and encourage Women to rise up against them, many Women still don’t know that these jerks have no right to hit them, people go to jail in western societies for abusing a cat or a dog even for forgetting to give it water one day, what a shame!!!!
Rise up Ladies and show your anger!!!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/09/2008 04:51 by bikhor.

I am against violence all together man hitting woman or a child as well as woman hitting man or a child.
Don’t be surprise to find some very aggressive women too. In general the person who resume to violence has nothing more to say.
What some people experience is very unfair and unreasonable behaviour is (al 2hoogrra). The culprits nine out of ten had experience violence themselves in there up bringing.
It is more of a culture thing than it is related to do with religion. The illiteracy and ignorance can lead to the lack of understanding the religion. Not only Italy and Morocco who have this phenomenon but other developed countries have it too just not as high.

Man! adds, you're doing all you can not to condemn these jerks, you "softly" defend them I wonder why!!!you’re now putting the 1% of women who abuse their husband in the same box equally with the more than ninety some % of abused women, that is more than amazing!!!

believe me if I could find a word worse than h'mar I would use it, I even apoligize to all real H'mir in front of their carrossa...they work hard and are loyal in most cases...they may even have some dignity.

Of course I respect your opinion but here are some descriptions to these H’mir I copied from a dictionary and I’ll wait to see if you pick at least one to describe these “people”

adjective 1. BRUTAL, fierce, cruel, savage, crude, vicious, ruthless, coarse, vulgar, heartless, inhuman, merciless, bloodthirsty, remorseless, barbarous, pitiless, uncouth
adjective 2. UNCIVILIZED, wild, savage, primitive, rude, barbarian, barbarous << OPPOSITE civilized

How am I defending them when clearly I said I am against violence? As a Muslim I really love, respect and adore all women. If you love someone you will hate seen that person in pain suffering with no dignity.
I know you want me to join you in insulting violent people; as a Muslim I won’t I condemn the act but not the people I don’t grant myself the authority.
Should the victim be my mum, sister or daughter I will be the biggest highlight of the international news as the mad Moroccan...

you gave the right answer adds, thank you.
i think bikhor didn't give keys to reduce the effect of this phenomena but just insulting these people who commit brutality against women.
we all condemn this act but no need to put more oil on fire, lets contribute all together by ideas to find tangible solution to this problem.

lets talk about this subject in ten years and see if your way is going to stop these behavior. I bet anything we will be right where we are now, condemnation will not work, this is exactly what the arab world is been doing in regards to Palestinians right, condemnation, or Tandid chadid allahjah, a phrase of defeat and shame they always write at the end of their moatamarate..or gathering.
Let’s just condemn and let’s talk about it in 10 years to see if the right of women are respected then, I’ll be so happy to apologize to all on this forum for insulting these men.

condemnation 'll change nothing but insulting these people with all vocabularies you found in dictionary 'll do. Ok, lets talk ab this subject in 10 years and see if ur way is going to stop these behavior. I also bet that insulting 'll change nothing and we 'll be right where we are now. Insulting 'll not work. This is exactly what the Arab world is doing when it comes to cursing and insulting each other like if they are a fierce enemies whereas they should be brothers as they share many things [faith, language, culture, customs etc....]
Let's just insult and let's talk ab it in 10 years to see if the right of women is respected then, i'll be so happy to apologize to you on this forum for condemning these men.

Thank you

I don’t care about how the jerks explain what the Quran says in this regards
in my book

I hate AL HOUGRA either imposed on men or women, I hate violence against human being and animals. I hate all forms of unjustice. I strongly condemn whoever commit or support these acts as it show cowardness and ignorance.
But what really attract me more in your post Mr is the above statments.
You are not interested to know what explanation QUOR'AAN gives regarding this matter , You were about to say your book worth more than QUOR'AAN. What is your book Mr? What title did you give? What does it talk about? I am really excited to get it and find out about its contents? you really look very nervous, emotional and agressive. cool down man, take a pose and think deeply for realistic solution to cure this illeness rather than lowering yourself to the level of these people that you describe with all terms you found in your dictionary.

Good luck man

Don't blame it on the violence, blame it on the people who abuse violence. Violence can sometimes be a usefull tool against unjustice.

No no no maretranger, my book is just an expression in English and it means in my view or in my mind, my book is no other than the holy Quran from which we all draw inspiration and guidance for our lives. And haacha lillah that I’ll be saying what you mentioned, with the “MY BOOK THING”
The phrase you found interesting is simple, the Jerks, or the people like you like me to call them, are the ones who explain the Quran in a way that works for their agendas, do I sound nervous here, sorry, people who hit their wives and say simply that the Quran says to do that, and by the way the holy Quran does clearly say that, I’ll be happy to give you the sourate if you want and also the many opinions of many of our scholars in this regard. Thankfully, we have in Islam a thing called ijtihad by which Muslim oulama could come up with views that could help change some practices such as this one. Look what this man, Alim or Fqih said just couple months ago, that yes a man can marry a 9 years old girl, now I could be as civilized and cool as to call that a mistake or an error, but I really call it despicable and appalling.
In the west, for decades the church stayed quiet about the criminals called priests, who prayed for many many years on innocent young children, the change came only when these animals were called animal and barbaric by the street and by the sad parents who took their kids every Sunday to these sharks. It is the moment society takes up on itself to call these people the real names they really deserve that change came. When we give our daughters hands to wed someone, I’m sure hitting them is the last thing we think about, because I know many fathers and mothers, if they could know, they would rather keep their daughters home.
And adds, I really like your phrase, {Should the victim be my mum, sister or daughter I will be the biggest highlight of the international news as the mad Moroccan...} because it’s really the way we all feel, but just tell me if lakaddara allah you go to meet this “SOMEONE” who harmed a close person to you, what language and name are you going to call him? I know it’s a stupid question and you don’t have to answer it as I know it’s not going to be: Sir, may I have a chat with you pleas… I think we all are good people and we seek the same result, our ways to get there are different,
Thank you maretranger for this phrase: you really look very nervous, emotional and agressive. cool down man… I’ll promise I will follow your suggestion.. man you get me going here I can’t stop, I’m going out to get some naanaa from moule el hanoute to make chi kass dial atay faal tarek..and take my pills, this is too much for my nerves, we el qalb wessoukkar werroumatiz…
Salam



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/12/2008 03:25 by bikhor.

Kutchia, do you need to be remind that violence is a noun and not an adjective? Surely behind violence there are violent, fierce and raging people who are to be blamed. If I hate violence I will automatically hate violent and savage people. So your remark doesn’t change anything, the meaning is still there.
Bikhor, don’t take me wrong. I just think it was useless to post just for blaming and cursing with strong vocabularies without suggesting any solutions.
Please don’t remind me of na3na3 as I miss it a lot. No mint here where I am. Anyway I ‘ll be back soon to get some na3na3 hrach to remember old days.

Thank you

Assalamo 3alaykom!

Suffice to say that the definition of justice in Islam as well as it was defined by the great Philosopher Socrates is very basic yet absolutely and universally infailible: " Justice is the protection of the weak from the powerfull"...

...Sadly not even what most of us refer to as the Developped world have successfully adpoted this simple concept of justice... the laws as they exist anywhere in the contemporary world only protect the powerfull or the most influencial, who can hire the best lawyers, or easily corrupt witnesses and the justice system itself. ...If you dare challenge me on this point...just look at all the injustices committed towards the Plaestinians by the Influencial Israel, or that by the Bush Empire gainst the people of Iraq and Cuba and others. or that of Russia on the checheniyan people...Look at the white collar crimes in the so called Developped world, and everywhere else. look everywhere around you and you will clearly see that the law only protects the powerfull and the most influentential be it In America, England, Morocco, Cuba, Isarel or Saudia...I am very sad that we can blindly point to other corrupt systems as perfect. and we turn our back to the infailible wisdom we have between our hands ( the Quran)...the same wisdom that had brought our ancestors from Al Jahiliya and its suffocating darkness to the light and true prosperity. the same wisdom that had abolished slavery 14 centuries before The powerfull and develloped United States of America had abolished slavery. the same wisdom that had given the woman her dignity and her rights to bear witness, and to have rights during Marriage and during and after Divorce 14 centuries before even the Great United States of America Has. the same wisdom from the same book that had spoken against racism and brought the people of all colors and shapes under one single umbrella of humanity 14 centuries before the Great United States, Or Great Britain, Of France or Gernany or any one else had even allowed any one to raise their voice against it...Does any one Dare challenge this!?

Violence against women, against kids, and against the less powerfull...is solely rooted in our own Ignorance of our own book and its true teaching, our own Ignorance of Morals and Morality, our Ignorance of our true duties and responsibilities, Our Ignorance that makes us blindly look up to what is less valuable than what we have just because it belongs to the most powerful and most influencial in our weak minds...

Do you see not! just introducing a new law, may for sure punish those transgressors, but it will not truly protect the victims...because by their nature,laws are mostly only applicable after the crime is comitted....and sometimes that may be a little too late...just tune in to the nightly news of one of those so called "Great Countries" and you are bound to learn about a case or two of a Guy assaulting a woman or abusing a kid or killing either or both... only then will you understand the worthless of any law ever devised by man... Morals and Morality are our only true protectors, so has it been decreed upon all Mankind by his only true Lord throughout its existence...and the word of the Lord shall never fail...but our understanding of it and faith in it just may...but are we really that blind to it!?

Blame does not solve problems, Finding and understanding the true source of the problem, is the first half of the solution, the most difficult, and the most crucial. for without it no true solution can ever be found...and I am still wandering and wondering.....

Wa allaho a3lamo! Wa inni akhafo an ya7i9o 3layana 9awlohou ta3ala :"... Fa matalohom ka matali 7imarin ya7milo assfaran"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2008 02:33 by Vagabondo.